The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

Former Member — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 23:29:34 GMT

The Toyota camry issues were tragic and they should have to pay a fine, 1.2 billion seems extreme to me, but the Volkswagon cheat coding on emissions who cares? It think its very funny they got one over on the Epa. Well for a little while anyway. That kind of intentional coding hasn't hurt anyone IMO.

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

bluescreen — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 01:42:32 GMT

Thanks, [mention:3a2b1265614a45c8a0f37b3f96f88fe4:e9ed411860ed4f2ba0265705b8793d05]. It's easy for me to say this, not being much of a car guy.

I can't help but compare my automobile to my electric guitar.

I'm not by any means a guitar technician, but I love playing music. When my guitar needs adjusting, I look online. Occasionally, I purchase a book that goes into more detail about what to do. Only for the most delicate or precise repairs do I take my instrument to an expert like I did today when I took my 1982 Les Paul for refretting.

My car should really be no different. It has a simple job to perform. I'm not into advanced media players and IPs in my automobile. I have a phone that does that already. My car should be the kind of machine I can usually service myself-- the way people used to back in the 1970s and 1980s. I have a vague suspicion that all this complex tech exists primarily to benefit auto makers, who would like nothing better than to force us to take our cars in whenever we have something that needs adjusting.

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

1234jgs — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 00:32:27 GMT

Thanks for writing Sagar,

It has always bugged me how little we are allowed to know about our cars, hopefully this is a turning point.

cheers Jeffrey

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

the-dubster — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 14:31:54 GMT

Nice article Sagar,

The one thing that stood out for me with this VW saga is who were VW really doing it for?

On one hand, you have the company, they get to sell a car that goes fast and (supposedly) has low emissions, keeping Government bodies and consumers happy the world over.

On the other you have the consumer, the very person who demands a car that goes fast which is also either 'green', economical or gets a tax break because it fits into a special bracket.

We drive the subterfuge in a way because what we want is the best of both worlds with the downfalls of neither.

Now I'm not saying VW were faultless, they deliberately fudged the facts and seemed to give everyone what they wanted, just not all at the same time, but it is driven by what we wanted . . . . .

So what do we want? Fast cars? Economical cars?

It's not likely we can have both in the measure we demand, not without hybrid technology, engine design can only go so far, you still need to burn fuel to make you go faster. More power = more fuel = higher emissions & higher consumption

We need to decide, consumers should drive product development, if we don't want it then no one will make it.

(Although that never stopped Apple)!

I'm happy to keep clogging along in my '05 Seat, with a division of labour between the garage (ECU stuff) and me (everything else), whilst trying to put my old '97 Peugeot 306 back on the road (NO ECU, the most electronic bit is the heating control - trust me).

I'll build the Pug how I want, honestly and properly, with the balance I can achieve between power and economy, I'll take the hit on higher tax and insurance because it's what I want and am happy with.

As for VW, they did it for themselves I guess, they got to sell cars that kept everyone happy - at least for a while.

- Andrew -

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

dougw — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 22:45:52 GMT

Provocative - I kinda like it...

You could make a very similar case about operating systems - how long has it been since you really understood what was going on "under the hood" of your operating system?

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

DAB — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 19:08:57 GMT

It is not just an issue about the number of lines of code, but the functions being supported.

Having been involved with the F-22 software, I question just what is going on in the car to require so much more software.

DAB

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

gadget.iom — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 12:45:37 GMT

Since the birth of the atomic age, scientists have often tried to ensure that their discoveries would be used for the benefit of humankind, rather than its destruction.

This statement instantly reminded me of this sketch...

https://vimeo.com/64522190

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

mcb1 — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:00:46 GMT

Sagar.

Excellent article.

I've always fixed and even modified my own cars, but the later versions with electronic management is getting very hard.

You can buy diagnostic tools that connect between the car and your laptop, and this proved very useful on my latest vehicle to resolve a warning light.

Some of the ideas are already there ... tyre pressure sensors with warning of slow or fast leaks are fitted to many now (and are great at resolving that strange road feeling).

Fluid detection (especially the brakes) has been fitted to many cars for quite a while.

The strive for better economy, emissions and performance has resulted in many changes with variable valve timing, variable ignition timing to suit the fuel and load, along with shutting down some cylinders when not required.

A monitor of the life of the engine oil based on the conditions it is driven under is also available, so you get a warning that it needs a service, is fitted to many models.

The best guage I have seen is the instant and average fuel economy, which can tend to change your driving habit without being in your face.

Sadly many people have little idea of how their car works, what is under the bonnet and in some case the driving characteristic, so I doubt having a dashboard full of 'information' would help them.

While I don't subscribe to the constant upgrade we do tend to buy a new car every 4 years just because of the high mileage we do, and with free servicing all I pay for is tyres, registration and fuel, so it does save on repair bills.

The older car then gets passed down to the children, who end up with a safe (4 star safety rating), economical and reliable car to use.

While I appreciate [mention:c8cb492217bf47d69909fbaba24458be:e9ed411860ed4f2ba0265705b8793d05] outlook on his 1983 car, modern cars have a much higher safety rating, and tend to result in less injury in an accident.

Since we tend to do most of our mileage at open road speed (62mph) the chance of serious injury in an accident does tend to figure in what car we drive on a daily basis.

But just for the record I do like classic cars.

Mark

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

bluescreen — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 03:29:02 GMT

You know, Aaron, i really admire your approach. If I actually understood the workings of my car well enough, I would do exactly what you do. I have always been bemused at people who "trade up" every couple of years to ensure they are driving the latest model. But then, I am also that guy who still proudly wears the same t-shirts he wore thirty years ago.

At the risk of sounding like a complete luddite, not to mention a bad citizen of the Internet of Things, I have to ask what overwhelming need is satisfied by assigning all of our vehicles an IP address.

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

aaroNiGHTS — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 03:04:33 GMT

Great post, Sagar.

Considering how much people like the tight, closed system of Apple products right now, I don't think being more open and transparent about cars would be appealing to basic consumers and even people with a technical background.

The big revolution that should change cars is the desirability to have less rather than more. Have a car without anything in it. The modern enhancements in cars for slightly better fuel economy, faster acceleration and big luxury add-ons have come at the extreme cost of having more stuff to break and increased the overall weight of cars significantly over the past few years.

On another note, I drive a 1983 Toyota. I fix it myself because I can and I'm not at all concerned about doing something wrong. It's carburettor based so the only computerised thing in the whole thing is the digital clock that you can hardly see in daylight. It might not be as super fuel efficient as a modern car, but the shear amount of Oil that would be used to manufacture a new car would far outweigh anything saved in running costs.

Do you need a technically advanced, smooth running car? Almost always you don't, its just something you want. I have literally fixed my car with duct tape and can push start it on my own when the battery dies. No oscilloscope or diagnostic cable connected to a computer in sight.

Would most people who have money to spend and wear a suit to work drive a car like mine around Los Angeles or London? No way. They'd be embarrassed. Hey, I'd love a new Mustang, but I couldn't afford one and it'd offer little practical benefit.

RE: The Tipping Point in Automobiles Has Arrived

jw0752 — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 02:38:12 GMT

Hi Sagar,

This is an excellent article. I would have expected to read it in a top tier periodical. In fact you may want to submit it.

As far as the cars, YES let the data flow. It would be easy enough to provide different levels of accessibility depending on whether the car is moving or not. No sense checking the fluid levels at 75 MPH.

John