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Arduino (attiny 85) sensor triggered carnival-style light bar question

Former Member

Hi everybody, I'm very much a "maker", and I know electroinics and have some familarity with Arduino, and have a general question and would like to dip my toe in the water per-se to see if what I would like to accomplish is can be done with relatively low cost.

 

I run my dogs as part of an agility troup here in Michigan in the United States. For those unfamilary with the sport, we find ways to burn off our dogs energy while getting them and ourselves some exercize. Pictured below is one of my Welsh Pembroke Corgi's jumping a hurdle.We perform our shows for charity at both indoor arenas as well as outside fairgrounds.

 

Our group consists of small dogs (like Ben, pictured) that generally clear the hurdle with only an inch or two of distance, to much larger dogs, where their feet still clear the hurdle by a bit, but the dog's body goes over the hurdle by perhaps a foot. (so a fairly large distribution of hurdle clearance differece)

 

So here is what I could like to accomplish:

 

When a dog clears the jump, I would like to have one strip of addressable LEDs on mounted to each side of the hurdle light up in a way similar to the old carnival "he-man" attractions where a person swings a mallet hitting a target pad, which usually sending up a weight upwards to hit a bell, but in later versions just had lights that sequentially and additively lit up a bar of lights to indicate success.

 

A couple ways I'd like to consider approaching it:

 

#1: I could use an ultrasonic sensor mounted to the base and when a dog passes over the hurdle, the sensor measures the distance and lights a number of the LEDs light up in sort of a sine wave up-and-down look (greater height more leds are light up and then down). The problem I see with this approach is the width of these jumps is about 3 feet and I wonder if a dog jumping the hurdle close to one end will trigger the sensor. Maybe two sensors? Ideas?

 

#2: I was thinking about using some PIR sensors like shown here on ebay They are cheaper, but I wonder if they can be used in direct outdoor light. They don't need much sensing accuracy, and it is possible to mount the sensor about half way up one of the sides, again triggering when any size dog passes over the hurdle.

 

Ideally, I'd like to be able to get a day's worth of jump time out of a 9-volt battery, or maybe put in a 3S 12v rechargeable Li-Po battery. In any given day, there is going to be much more idle time than actual time where the LEDs are going to be on.

 

Finally, to conserve costs, do you think this project can be ported to an ATTINY 85, then the cost per hurdle would be significantly reduced.

 

Probably my biggest concern is being able to sense something under lots of direct sunlight, then next battery life.

 

General thoughts or ideas?

 

Roger

 

 

image

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  • 0

    Ultrasonic sensors would certainly be a less complex solution. Consider using at least three of them though. Since the dogs are not confinev to the center of tthe hurdle, the angle of the ultrasonic beam between the sensor and the anamil will affect the accuracy of the reading. Also use the greatest height practical to improve the accuracy..

    The lowest sensor reading would indicate the highest jump. The idea of using the sensor to indicate the approach of the jumpper is a great..Tthe ramp of the display LEDs could be adusted easily using a counter/decoder IC such as the CD4017 or other counter.For a LED driver a up/down counter could create a ramp up/down with a simple 555 counter and some simple logic or programming via the Arduino.

    If this doesn't make sense, I can elaborate.

    best luck on this project.

    Bill

  • 0 in reply to billpenner

    Bill

     

    You might want to look at using these, instead of 4017, etc.

    http://digistump.com/products/1

    You will need a processor to deal with the ping sensor anyway, so you may as well include it.

     

    I did realise the higher the animal jumps the closer it gets, but given the pictured animal I don't think thats extremely high before it gets vertigo.

     

    The limited play I had with a SR04 (the basic) it detected 1cm/04 inches.

     

    It could be possible to use two at an angle and do some math on the result to work out the final height.

    Do't ping them at the same time as they'll interfere.

    The formulas state how long it takes for the ping to travel AND return, and how long the tx 'rings' for (which determines the shortest detection time) I just can't recall them.

     

    One issue you'll need to sort out is the measurement will be the highest point which is likely to be the head.

    You can average to eliminate, but the shorter and faster the dog, the more error may creep in.

     

    One possibility may be a sideways looking one that once its triggered then the height reading is taken.

    I would think this would be consistant.

     

    Using some RF on the first or last jump, you could also detect the time to complete the jumps.

     

     

    Cheers

    Mark

     

     

    However I think a video taken looking across the jump while a range of animals jump, might be your best research tool, .... before looking at possible solutions.

  • 0 in reply to mcb1

    Mark:

    You can tell how long I have been out of the mainstream of the business since i recommended old TTL logic instesd of current devices. Thanks for the DIGISTUMP reference.

    Much better Idea!

     

    Roger

    :Do you want to monitor ALL hurdles or just one? also do you need to record/print each jump for comparison orjust display the height of each jump with the led display?

    Will the display reach the top on every jump or just go up an relative amount to indicate the height jumped?

    You might also consider a 7 segment numerical display for the results. Some quite large ones are available.

     

    Also for consideration: From the spec sheet......

     

    The HC-SR04 ultrasonic sensor uses sonar to determine distance to an object like bats or dolphins do. It offers excellent non-contact range detection with high accuracy and stable readings in an easy-to-use package. From 2cm to 400 cm or 1” to 13 feet. It operation is not affected by sunlight or black material like Sharp rangefinders are (although acoustically soft materials like cloth can be difficult to detect). It comes complete with ultrasonic transmitter and receiver module.


    Features:

    • Power Supply :+5V DC
    • Quiescent Current : <2mA
    • Working Currnt: 15mA
    • Effectual Angle: <15°
    • Ranging Distance : 2cm – 400 cm/1" - 13ft
    • Resolution : 0.3 cm
    • Measuring Angle: 30 degree
    • Trigger Input Pulse width: 10uS
    • Dimension: 45mm x 20mm x 15mm

     

     

     

    I seem to remember that there is a minimum delay time between measurements but I can't seem to find it.

    Sorry, just rambling..

    Bill

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  • 0 in reply to mcb1

    Mark:

    You can tell how long I have been out of the mainstream of the business since i recommended old TTL logic instesd of current devices. Thanks for the DIGISTUMP reference.

    Much better Idea!

     

    Roger

    :Do you want to monitor ALL hurdles or just one? also do you need to record/print each jump for comparison orjust display the height of each jump with the led display?

    Will the display reach the top on every jump or just go up an relative amount to indicate the height jumped?

    You might also consider a 7 segment numerical display for the results. Some quite large ones are available.

     

    Also for consideration: From the spec sheet......

     

    The HC-SR04 ultrasonic sensor uses sonar to determine distance to an object like bats or dolphins do. It offers excellent non-contact range detection with high accuracy and stable readings in an easy-to-use package. From 2cm to 400 cm or 1” to 13 feet. It operation is not affected by sunlight or black material like Sharp rangefinders are (although acoustically soft materials like cloth can be difficult to detect). It comes complete with ultrasonic transmitter and receiver module.


    Features:

    • Power Supply :+5V DC
    • Quiescent Current : <2mA
    • Working Currnt: 15mA
    • Effectual Angle: <15°
    • Ranging Distance : 2cm – 400 cm/1" - 13ft
    • Resolution : 0.3 cm
    • Measuring Angle: 30 degree
    • Trigger Input Pulse width: 10uS
    • Dimension: 45mm x 20mm x 15mm

     

     

     

    I seem to remember that there is a minimum delay time between measurements but I can't seem to find it.

    Sorry, just rambling..

    Bill

Children
  • 0 in reply to billpenner

    Hi Bill,

     

    What I'm trying to do is much simplier. It doesn't matter what height the dogs go over the hurdle -- I would have all the leds go off sequentially to the top one for effect anyway.

     

    By the images below, it seems that the middle one -- with sensors mounted at an angle -- would provide the most coverage. Now, I would prefer to use a single sensor --  perhaps pointed toward the dogs

     

    image

     

    Now, I would prefer to use a single sensor --  perhaps pointed toward the dogs as below. I would be curious if the ultrasonic sensors target angle is more conical than flat. If so, the sensor could commit at "t", which would be some particular distance, then fire the leds in sequence up the side and down again. The only thing that I would like to do is have the leds fire roughly when the dog passes over. This is really only my idea to create an effect. It doesn't have to be perfect, and it doesn't have to be accurate, but I'd like to do it in a cost effective way that catches all the dogs as they jump over. Probably the hardest thing is that most shows are outside with lots of ambient light, so I've pretty much ruled out infared sensors, thinking ultrasonic is better.

     

    image

    I hope the pictures help explain it better.

     

    Roger

  • 0 in reply to Former Member

    Rodger

    I kind of lost who started the thread, so apologies for directing the replys at Bill .....

     

    Nice picture,

    The middle two with sideways looking sensors is achievable with just one on either side.

    These things tend to go 4m with a decent reflective surface, so 1m shouldn't be hard.

     

    The last one is easily achievable, you just set you software to do something when the 'target' distance is x.

     

    The sensors are a round 'speaker' and its like a ripple in a pond tend ie spherical, so plotting ping v time it would appear conical, rather than flat.

    They need a reasonable surface to bounce the ultrasonic signal back off, and I guess the proof is when you aim it at the dog.

     

     

    There is one thing I hadn't considered though.

    At 38KHz is your furry friend going to hear it.????

     

    I think you might need to get hold of one, fire up a bit of simple software using an lcd, and try it.

    The worst that will happen is it doesn't work, but you've gained some knowledge and are one step closer.

     

     

    Mark

  • 0 in reply to billpenner

    I think you nailed down the whole problem as not doable with sonar.  I like to think of it as a question of determining the acoustic reflectivity of shag carpet.

     

    If it were my project, I would be researching what kind of signal emitters should be mounted on the animal. 

     

    I am not too clear on exactly what data is being sought.  Velocity while crossing over the hurdle or height above the hurdle?

  • 0 in reply to billabott

    Hi Bill,

     

    Really no data at all. I just want to light some LEDs (the addressable ones) so that approximately when the dog makes the jump, the sensor fires the LEDs. Doesn't matter how high, doesn't matter how fast, I just want to make sure we don't miss a dog if he/she jumps too close too close to one of the side uprights, and I'd sorta like to have the lights go off as he/she is midair over the hurdle itself -- again though, firing exactly isn't all that important.

     

    I do have one of the 4-pin sonar units. I plan to prototype the thing in a week or so -- less the LEDs. I think I may buy a whole 5M roll -- (yikes, $99), but that can wait until I make sure the sensor works with the dogs

     

    Thanks for your advice.

  • 0 in reply to Former Member

    Look on eBay for the 5 meter roll  for cheapest.  Also taydaelectronics is way less than the $99 you quote.

     

    Thanks for the explanation.  So what you want is something akin to a metal detector (dog tag/metal buckle) or a capacitive touch sensor (without the actual touching).  I own and have used a metal detector to search for a lost ring in the yard with success.  I seem to recall that the simple coil tech of the metal detector can be made at home and circuit diagrams are available online.  If memory serves it relies upon the extreme differential amplification available from Op-Amps.

     

    I also know that jfets can be very sensitive to enviromental changes in their free hanging gate wire.  I am thinking possibly that a strip (1/2" to 1") of tin or aluminum in a U shape on the inner part of the hurdle might get enough electrons moving toward the jfet gate to turn it on when a moving body of a dog passes through.