MMM (Multifrequency, Modulated, and Multi-wave) Ultrasonic Technology

I am extremely dubious that ultrasonic excitation of water in   pipe will have any effect at all on scaling downstream of the excitation area.

Do you have any research data that suggests this actually works. I did some web searching and found lots of scammy looking companies selling ultrasonic scale preventers but I couldn't find a single reputable looking explanation of how it might work, let alone any data.

This is a typical example:

https://www.ultrasonicdescaling.com/technologies/the-physics-of-industrial-anti-scaling/

See the amazing pulsing diagram near the start and look at the adjacent scale - red  = 10E6 microns = 1m.

So it's garbage  -  1m displacement in water at 20kHz would need GW.

The diagrams that you show are not convincing.

You need to do some serious research and find some hard evidence that this idea will work before putting any effort into building one.

And since it looks to me as if you'll be competing with some world class scammers as well as plenty of reputable companies making water softeners you'll need a lot more than just an idea to make a business.

Good luck.

MK

Hello Michaelkelltt !    :  )     .... thank you for your reply!

Can you capture pic of what graph your referring to?

All the displacement graphs I see are in "um" and "mm"   ..... don't see any with "m".

Thanks!

......... while your responding:

As I stated in my opening post " ..... negate the scaling ability of the minerals in the water before they can form on the inside of the pipes and heat exchangers" walls"

"I am extremely dubious that ultrasonic excitation of water in pipe will have any effect at all on scaling downstream of the excitation area."  -MK

I never said that it did!   :  (      ...... its the ultrasonically "nucleated" minerals  passing thru the water system (pipes, heat exchangers, etc) that can no longer produce scale! 

The ultrasonic "contact" with the scaling minerals need only be for 1.5 seconds upstream of everything!

Currently used commercial water treatment systems (TAC & NAC)  function by nucleation of the scale minerals as well. And that in of itself has a downstream "existing" scale removable ability! 

There is evidence that TAC systems work although they are subject to serious issues with contamination.

www.waterboards.ca.gov/.../ion_exchange_water_softeners.pdf

There is some evidence that ultrasonics can reduce subsequent scaling but it was hard to find.

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/13/23/3428

I could find nothing at all in terms of research data re. MMM - perhaps you can enlighten us.

MK

I can't persuade the E14 editor to put the picture above in context after Rick124's request re. the microns and metres.

MK

I can't persuade the E14 editor to put the picture above in context after Rick124's request re. the microns and metres.

MK

"There is evidence that TAC systems work although they are subject to serious issues with contamination."  - MK

The weak aspect of TAC and NAC is that the chlorine in city water degrades these polymer resins ..... shorting their life span in halve! 

Its common practice to install a carbon granular tank ahead of the TAC/NAC treatment tanks to negate this issue.  

Even then, the normal lifespan of these expensive resins is only 3 to 5 years and has to be replaced.

Using an ultrasonic solution (no polymer resins) to provide the nucleation of the scale components ..... essentially is maintenance free!

michaelkellett said:

I can't persuade the E14 editor to put the picture above in context after Rick124's request re. the microns and metres.

I can.

Thanks !

MK

Now I see where you are coming from !

The MPI people look serious and real - they have patents and build 100 KW+ systems .

I suspect that the best way to get their technology is to buy some stuff from them.

To replicate it (commercially) you would need to understand the patent situation and be sure you were not infringing.

As far as generating the signals goes then it rather depends on you skills and resources.

I don't know enough about MPI's signal processing to make an actual recommendation but somethign like this might do:

https://www.analog.com/en/resources/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/sharc-audio-module.html#eb-overview

To use it you need a  good understanding of DSP and C programming.

Probably access to a tool like MATLAB for signal processing development work.

The ultrasonic driver board  - if you are feeling bold then look on Ali Baba and Aliexpress - but if you are at "day one with ultrasonics" be prepared to get your fingers burned - once when you buy it and then again when you try and use it.

I think you might need to hire someone with experience of high power ultrasonics.

But if you want to sell a system to end users like you applications suggest why not plan to buy in the parts from a source like MPI -  then you'll have an expert on your side rather than competing. The investment to compete with them on developing making the core ultrasonic components would be large. But developing a system like you washer dryer is bridging a gap between companies like MPI and people who want to wash and dry stuff - there may be  a gap there you can fill.

Please note: the above free advice should be treated with the usual caution - I know very little about the context of your project.

MK

Agreed!  ....... well said!   :  )

Well , I can't just go and buy their OEM unit  ......  as even the smallest version is $25,000.00 !!    :  (

But, I did download their MMM control software!   :  )

This affords many "clues" as to what's going on behind the scenes as to the manipulation of the ultrasound to its MMM script. 

I see the obvious set high/low range parameters for the ADSP  ...... no problem!    The hard part will be scripting the scanning matrix of all the variables (ie: power,  frequency, PWM, phase, etc) to emulate the attributes of MMM. 

My first thoughts are:  the nature of such a script would require the extensive use of a Kalman filter.