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Forum LED 4-Pin help needed
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Related

LED 4-Pin help needed

hafcanadian
hafcanadian over 4 years ago

I could use some help choosing replacement 4-pin RGB lamps for my In Motion outdoor Xmas sets.  I have 20 twelve-lamp “C9” sets on the house, end to end, each with a control module.  They manage to stay in synch, so the modules must be absolutely identical electronically.  Color combinations and solids rotate in sequence and can be steady or flash, etc.  The colors include white, purple, orange, etc., not just RGB, so the controllers apparently mix RGB with varying current I assume.

 

When new I had sets that acted up, with sections of 3 or 4 lights staying solid white, or occasionally groups of lamps entirely out.  The mfr. ultimately sent me more than 20 new sets, so usually now I just replace an entire faulty string with one of those, and later try to fix the original.  But that’s a nightmare, and I now have 7 or 8 sets from years past clogging my workbench.  Sometimes just juggling lamp positions works, but usually it’s a bugger ferreting out what’s wrong.  It’s easy to suspect the controllers, but sometimes just replacing just the right lamp with a spare does the trick.  But because there are 4 wires instead of just 2, I have a devil of a time finding the faulty lamp;  my yellow LED Xmas gun isn’t useful on controlled 4 pin lamp sets.

 

Since there only 2 spare lamps in holders with each set (and some sets had no spares), I’d like to get spare 4-pin bulbs.  If I just replace lamps one at a time until a set works, since they fail in straight groups of 3, that may be easiest.   The pins are too long and often need trimming a bit to fit the holder or they jam going into the sockets.  Problem is I’m not sure which lamp to order.  Maybe you can assist.  The tag on each cord says to replace with 3v fuses, and 4v. 0.25 w lamps.  That’s it.  In searching online I see options on Amazon (Chanzon), but they are clear lenses and mine are diffused.  The ones at Amazon say 3v.  More concerning is they come either common anode or common cathode, and I don’t know how to tell which that mine are.  They are domed 5mm.  I looked at Mouser.com but was still left with uncertainty.

 

Can you advise?  I’d sure like to clear these 7 or 8 sets off my garage workbench, and for once have room for other projects as they come up!

Thanks,

Joel

Clackamas, Oregon

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  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 4 years ago +4 suggested
    Hi Joel, it is difficult to answer your question with the information provided. By the way, you need only post it once. Posting a photo of the lamps could be helpful. I Suggest starting with some simple…
  • ralphjy
    ralphjy over 4 years ago in reply to hafcanadian +4 suggested
    I think that this tutorial should help you. It explains the pinout and different methods of controlling the colors. https://www.circuitbread.com/tutorials/how-rgb-leds-work-and-how-to-control-color Ra…
  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to hafcanadian +4 suggested
    The video that Ralph linked appears to go into more depth and will provide useful information. The language on the tag is confusing. The LEDs don't really work at 4V or for that matter 3V. Depending on…
  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to hafcanadian

    OK, I am in the U.S. also.  I just sent a request to "follow" you.  If you click on my avatar you will see my personal page.  Request to "follow" me via button in upper right corner and we can exchange personal messages.

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to hafcanadian

    Hi Joel, you also need to approve my request to follow

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  • hafcanadian
    0 hafcanadian over 4 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    Sorry, I kinda figured that, but can’t find on this site where to see your request.  Under what menu would I see it?

     

    addendum:  I think I found it in my “inbox” and accepted, so should be good now.  I didn’t see it earlier. 

     

    Cheez... what a clumsy setup.  In the process I read a thread of users complaining about the “following” setup.  Other organizations I use aren’t so confusing when it comes to private messaging, but then they involve paid memberships that tend to limit unwanted communications or scams.

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago

    jw0752

    dougw

    ralphjy

     

    I am hoping you might be able to help with this...  I had Joel send me two of his RGB LEDs described above and I attached them to my bench power supply assuming the long lead was cathode.  I set the maximum current to 3 mA and then increased the voltage to the red lead.  On the first LED I got a dim red response at about 2.4V and then the LED went out.  The green and blue did not light at all but I could get current across them.

     

    Thinking it was a bad LED I hooked up the second one.  This time I got a brighter response and took a photograph.  See the image below...

    image

    The LED on the right is the one from Joel.  The one on the left is a fresh one that was in my box of LEDs.  You can see my LED is much brighter than the one from Joel at the same current and it turns on at a lower Vf.  I couldn't get the green or blue on the second LED from Joel to turn on (mine worked as expected).  Then I tried the red on Joel's again and now it won't light.  I guess I fried it at 3 mA.

     

    So I don't have an idea of what is happening.  It appears the long lead is cathode and red is in the same location as my LED.  Joel sent me LEDs that were working in his string but they appeared to burn out at only 3 mA in my test.  Any ideas?  I was thinking I might send him some of mine that he could try in his string.

     

    Thanks for any help image

    Frank

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  • ralphjy
    0 ralphjy over 4 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    I took another look at Joel’s picture - the controller is a TY-16F which I think means that these are “smart” LEDs not common cathode or anode types.

     

    Take a look at the APA-106

    image

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to ralphjy

    Good eye!  Let me see if I can light it with an Arduino.

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  • dougw
    0 dougw over 4 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    I don't think any LED will burn out with just 3 mA, either forward or reverse current.

    Presumably your power supply or a DVM will tell you if the device is common cathode or common anode.

    I tried several LEDs limited at 3 mA forward and reverse with a 25 V supply. Two of them did not conduct in reverse even at 25 V, the other acted like a 21 V zener. They all survived fine - they only light up when forward biased.

    2.5 V is very high for a red LED. If you short the LED leads out to prove your power cables are good, then the issue would appear to be with the LED.

    Some LEDs may not emit much light at 3mA, try 20 mA. I have "seen" old LEDs (old technology) that don't emit visible light at 3 mA.

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  • jw0752
    0 jw0752 over 4 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    Hi Frank,

     

    It looks to me like it is a case of a bad LED. I had trouble once when I set my power supply to 10 mA and had my Voltage set to about 10 volts. When I hooked up the LED the current limit didn't respond quick enough to protect the LED. You wisely set your current and then slowly raised the voltage. I have also seen LEDs that partially burn out. They will still light but weakly and draw too much current. Good luck on figuring out what is going on.

     

    John

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to dougw

    I did try various combinations to find the common anode or cathode as the case might be for a regular RGB but believe Ralph is probably correct about it being a "smart" LED.  Will outline what I know so far below....

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to jw0752

    Thanks John - I was wondering if it might be something like that.  I will outline what I know so far below...

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