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Member's Forum Suggestions for a circuit/off the shelf component/device that can amplify an ac signal from 12V @ 5ma to 300V @ .25 A
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Suggestions for a circuit/off the shelf component/device that can amplify an ac signal from 12V @ 5ma to 300V @ .25 A

dafapa
dafapa over 2 years ago

I'm mostly an embedded software person (lately more pure software).  I'm getting the details of the requirements from a person that works as a protection engineer.  After getting some feedback I'm going to try to provide some more information and re-phrase the question.  

The ultimate goal is to convert a signal from a signal generator so that the voltage levels are high enough to work with the SEL 351S relay (without having to remove parts and wire things directly to the low voltage side internally).  As some people suspected its intended to be part of a test bench for simulating fault conditions.  The signal generator will be outputting something like the image below, with a maximum output range of +/-12V.  As you can see the signal contains a DC offset during the fault condition.

image

Being a utility application the base frequency is 60Hz, but harmonics up to 1200Hz have to be considered.  The goal is to scale the signal from +/- 12V to +/- 424V (I realize before I said 300V, but am now told its 300 * sqrt(2)).  The scaled signal will be connected to an input impedance of 1 Mega Ohm on an SEL 351S relay.  Someone pointed out the large disparity in input and output power (I was just being thrown numbers when I made the post).  After examining things it shouldn't need anywhere near a quarter amp - it should be at most about .5ma max.  Its not really driving a load; this is an input to a voltage sensor on the relay.  

I hope this clarifies things.

I'm updating this to include that 10 channels are also required.

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 2 years ago +3
    This feels like an XYproblem in the making. What end task are you trying to accomplish.
  • rsc
    rsc over 2 years ago +2
    What frequency AC input do you need to amplify?
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to dafapa +2
    What's the actual goal you're trying to achieve (i.e. if you could start at the beginning, before getting to your immediate objective). Just trying to guess, it sounds like some sort of industrial power…
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  • baldengineer
    0 baldengineer over 2 years ago

    This feels like an XYproblem in the making. What end task are you trying to accomplish. 

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  • dafapa
    0 dafapa over 2 years ago in reply to baldengineer

    Its for signal conditioning for a relay (utility power application).  The output of a potential transformer (12V input) goes into the amplifier which outputs 300V.  This is fed into a SEL: 351S relay.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to dafapa

    What's the actual goal you're trying to achieve (i.e. if you could start at the beginning, before getting to your immediate objective).

    Just trying to guess, it sounds like some sort of industrial power system testbed to simulate faults or something, that you're trying to achieve?

    I doubt you're going to find anything off-the-shelf unless it's a well-known problem you're trying to solve perhaps. However I'm sure you could get an engineer to put together something custom, if you were able to explain it a lot better.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to dafapa

    What's the actual goal you're trying to achieve (i.e. if you could start at the beginning, before getting to your immediate objective).

    Just trying to guess, it sounds like some sort of industrial power system testbed to simulate faults or something, that you're trying to achieve?

    I doubt you're going to find anything off-the-shelf unless it's a well-known problem you're trying to solve perhaps. However I'm sure you could get an engineer to put together something custom, if you were able to explain it a lot better.

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  • dafapa
    0 dafapa over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    I updated the original post to try to clarify things.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to dafapa

    That's a lot more feasible now. But still I don't know of anything off-the-shelf. Probably if you were constructing it from scratch, your solution will require a transformer, either to step-up, and/or to isolate all the outputs, since you may not want a common-ground for your tests for all outputs (I've no idea).

    I don't know if there's a better method, but if it were me, since you're going to need some sort of amplifier or buffer anyway, I'd investigate building an audio amplifier output stage with complementary transistors, since they are available to support several hundred volts, and drive it's input from the signal source. Even if it didn't reach your 424V that's not an issue, since half that would be sufficient to drive a 1:1 transformer in push-pull using the amplifier stage on each end of the primary winding. A 1:1 or 1:2 transformer should be possible to find. You may get distortion of a few percent though. You may also need to protect the input side depending on what you're driving it with.

    Your transistors would likely dissipate a Watt or two, so multiplied by all your channels, such a solution would require a large heatsink or fan, and would therefore be like a 1- or 2-rack unit sized piece of equipment. 

    In summary, I don't think it's too complicated if some distortion is fine, and wouldn't be too expensive in terms of material costs either (maybe $1k materials since you'd be purchasing in low volume), but you'd still need to pay someone to design it and construct it (not me). If you're interested to self-design it, you should look at audio amplifier circuits, but you might not find a ready-to-use design to match your specifications (hence the need to design).

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    The above assumes you wanted ten outputs. But you've edited your original post, so now I can't check if that really was the case, or if I had originally misread. It's good etiquette not to delete content, just to append with (say) text indicating the additional content. Half the comments from people make no sense now that the original post has been edited.

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  • dafapa
    0 dafapa over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Sorry,  yes it was 10.  I was trying to simplify things, but I get your point.

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