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Member's Forum What is likely to happen, if anything, if I try and export to the grid and import from the grid simultaneously?
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What is likely to happen, if anything, if I try and export to the grid and import from the grid simultaneously?

Andrew J
Andrew J over 1 year ago

I have this scenario:  I want to export from a house battery to the grid during the period 23:30 to 01:00 at 3.6kW (until battery is empty.)  At the same time, I have my car plugged in charging at 7kW.  Would that have the net effect of pulling 3.4kW from the grid?  Is anything likely to fail?

As a basic summary, I can charge my house battery up at 7p from 23:30 to 05:30 and discharge it to the house during the rest of the day, thus I pay only 7p for electricity used.  I don't fully discharge the battery during this period so I can sell the remaining charge back to the grid at 15p before fully charging up again ready for the day.  However, I also need to charge my car up which I also do 23:30 to 05:30 - Note because of the tariff I am on I have NO control over when the charging actually occurs so I cannot configure it to avoid the time period where the house battery is discharging.  Re-configuring the battery to not discharge when I plug the car in is a laborious process which I want to avoid.  I only actually charge the car once or twice a week.

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  • bradfordmiller
    bradfordmiller over 1 year ago in reply to Andrew J

    How long does your battery last with that kind of activity, and how much does it cost to replace it when it wears out? I wouldn't calculate "profit" without knowing depreciation expenses...

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  • dang74
    dang74 over 1 year ago

    I am kind of joining the party late and because I don't have an EV, the post and responses initially came across as a very unfamiliar George Jetson kind of world.  For instance I had not even heard of a house battery.  I am wondering one thing though... if someone didn't have an EV... is the setup scalable.... can someone have multiple house batteries which they charge up during the cheap time and sell back at a higher rate later in the day?

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  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to phoenixcomm

    The standard rate for import between 05:30 and 23:30 is £0.277 so I’m pretty much getting electric for 25% of that.  I also have to pay something like £0.47 a day as a service charge.  You may think £0.15 for export is cheap but it’s about the best on the market - some utility companies are paying as little as £0.01!  
    Electricity in the UK is very expensive compared to the rest of Europe (the world) because its price is pegged to the price of coal and gas plus a surcharge for green investment.

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  • phoenixcomm
    phoenixcomm over 1 year ago in reply to Andrew J

    Your £0.15 rate is cheap! I pay about $0.15/Kw flat + $8.00 service fee, But he, he, I don't sell we trade Kw used == Kw supplied!!  So if I use 2kw and give them 2.kw its free ( plus the service fee which I have to pay..)  but sadly I live in an Apartment currently so I am currently looking for something in my service area! 

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  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago

    To close this off, everything worked fine - car charged up, battery discharged and then charged backup.  No fiery deaths occurred.  What I’d forgotten about was the 8kW inverter - it can discharge up to that rate although if the discharge is to the grid it limits that to 3.68kW.  Last night with the car pulling 7kW, this initially came from the battery which was also then able to send 1kW back to the grid.  Once the battery had discharged all power came from the grid.

    The underlying complications are that:

    • I don’t control when the car charges.  I plug it in, my utility company recognises that and sets a charging schedule based on my desired SoC, ready-by time and expected grid load.  This can change as time goes on and grid load changes.
    • The battery configuration is awkward.  I can’t amend a configuration, it has to be deleted and then re-created, so it’s a pain to reconfigure it to not export to the grid whilst the car is plugged in, then change it back again.

    I’m hoping to get more control over this with Home Automation but I’m away off that at the moment, so the fact I can just leave the battery configured to export then recharge makes life easier even if I lose out on the pennies.

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  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to genebren

    It’s running now and all seems fine. I forgot to take the 8kW inverter into account so judging from what the control app is telling me, I’m pushing the full 8kW with the car taking 7kW and the grid 1kW. The export limit I have is 3.6KW so the inverter would normally limit to that when the load is low (nights I’m not charging for example)

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  • genebren
    genebren over 1 year ago

    I worked for a company that designed and manufactured a wide range of power inverter (up to 1 MW).  We would routinely do exactly what you are taking about.  We would power our inverter from the grid and generate power, pushing it back onto the grid.  We would only be charged for the loses in the system (based on efficiency and any other losses). Again, as others have mentioned, you need make sure that no limits are exceeded (wire gauges and fuses, etc.).

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  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to phoenixcomm

    Yes, £0.07 23:30 to 05:30 and £0.27 05:30 to 23:30. I can export at £0.15. The grid is just what we call the national electricity infrastructure here. The battery I have has the capacity to support the house between 05:30 to 23:30 with charge still remaining. So I basically pay £0.07 for all my electric. Any excess I can sell back at £0.08 profit (I expect to be a millionaire any day now Grinning). However, once late autumn and winter roll around my ASHP will consume a lot more and I expect to pull on the grid at the higher price. 

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  • phoenixcomm
    phoenixcomm over 1 year ago

    first I live across the pond so I will ask the first question: what is, and how is the 'grid' paying you??

    this is rather important as my grid pays me per Kw at the same price they charge me. So it work out nice ie. if I draw 3 Kw and generate 5 Kw they pay for 3 Kw only. When i move into my new digs I bringing in 3 phase for the shop, etc. I take 2 legs for 220/110 and that where the switch  will be since they are looking at total load on the 3 phase any I generate on the back end gets credit. 

    I don't have times, or high/load times so I don't worry about it but you might have to. do you have different rates for different time of the day / night?

    . 

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  • robogary
    robogary over 1 year ago

    Does the battery system/inverter support regenerative pumpback ? 

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