element14 Community
element14 Community
    Register Log In
  • Site
  • Search
  • Log In Register
  • Community Hub
    Community Hub
    • What's New on element14
    • Feedback and Support
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Personal Blogs
    • Members Area
    • Achievement Levels
  • Learn
    Learn
    • Ask an Expert
    • eBooks
    • element14 presents
    • Learning Center
    • Tech Spotlight
    • STEM Academy
    • Webinars, Training and Events
    • Learning Groups
  • Technologies
    Technologies
    • 3D Printing
    • FPGA
    • Industrial Automation
    • Internet of Things
    • Power & Energy
    • Sensors
    • Technology Groups
  • Challenges & Projects
    Challenges & Projects
    • Design Challenges
    • element14 presents Projects
    • Project14
    • Arduino Projects
    • Raspberry Pi Projects
    • Project Groups
  • Products
    Products
    • Arduino
    • Avnet & Tria Boards Community
    • Dev Tools
    • Manufacturers
    • Multicomp Pro
    • Product Groups
    • Raspberry Pi
    • RoadTests & Reviews
  • About Us
    About the element14 Community
  • Store
    Store
    • Visit Your Store
    • Choose another store...
      • Europe
      •  Austria (German)
      •  Belgium (Dutch, French)
      •  Bulgaria (Bulgarian)
      •  Czech Republic (Czech)
      •  Denmark (Danish)
      •  Estonia (Estonian)
      •  Finland (Finnish)
      •  France (French)
      •  Germany (German)
      •  Hungary (Hungarian)
      •  Ireland
      •  Israel
      •  Italy (Italian)
      •  Latvia (Latvian)
      •  
      •  Lithuania (Lithuanian)
      •  Netherlands (Dutch)
      •  Norway (Norwegian)
      •  Poland (Polish)
      •  Portugal (Portuguese)
      •  Romania (Romanian)
      •  Russia (Russian)
      •  Slovakia (Slovak)
      •  Slovenia (Slovenian)
      •  Spain (Spanish)
      •  Sweden (Swedish)
      •  Switzerland(German, French)
      •  Turkey (Turkish)
      •  United Kingdom
      • Asia Pacific
      •  Australia
      •  China
      •  Hong Kong
      •  India
      •  Japan
      •  Korea (Korean)
      •  Malaysia
      •  New Zealand
      •  Philippines
      •  Singapore
      •  Taiwan
      •  Thailand (Thai)
      •  Vietnam
      • Americas
      •  Brazil (Portuguese)
      •  Canada
      •  Mexico (Spanish)
      •  United States
      Can't find the country/region you're looking for? Visit our export site or find a local distributor.
  • Translate
  • Profile
  • Settings
Community Hub
Community Hub
Member's Forum A perspective on Testing.
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • Documents
  • Quiz
  • Events
  • Leaderboard
  • Polls
  • Files
  • Members
  • Mentions
  • Sub-Groups
  • Tags
  • More
  • Cancel
  • New
Join Community Hub to participate - click to join for free!
Actions
  • Share
  • More
  • Cancel
Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 13 replies
  • Subscribers 617 subscribers
  • Views 1267 views
  • Users 0 members are here
  • verification
  • testing
  • validation
  • physics
Related

A perspective on Testing.

DAB
DAB over 9 years ago

Testing is a natural scientific response to confirm or dispel an idea.

Testing falls into two primary functions, Verification and Validation.

 

Most people are familiar with Verification testing.  You use the tests to verify that the idea/device/system provides the expected outputs given the proper input stimulus.

 

In component testing, you want to verify that the device responds as designed or advertised.  I have had a lot of fun with the latter as some marketers just cannot help themselves when making outlandish claims for their new toys.

I worked as an Independent Verification and Validation engineer on some very large aerospace systems and I had a wonderful time deflating exotic ideas about the technology implementations being developed.

 

For the most part, Verification Testing is straight forward.  You establish the inputs and measure the outputs.  Standard black box testing technique.  The device either meets specification or it does not.

 

Validation Testing is similar but very different from Verification Testing.

 

Validation involves analyzing the resulting Verification Testing results to determine if the final product satisfies the intended uses of the product.

 

In essence, Validation assess the question of can the intended users, use the product to do the job they need it to do.

 

Depending upon your user base, this becomes a very difficult task.

Each user has a perceived notion of what the product needs to do for them.  Very subtle implementation decisions can result in a product that is technically perfect, but useless.  Sort of like contacting Microsoft Support!

 

In some cases, Validation testing takes you out of the comfortable area of specific input and output and into a more fuzzy world of user perception.  Not an easy task, thought there are some excellent analysis tools available to help resolve this level of testing.

 

Most of my current work involves Validating my current solution for a Unified Field Theory.

The issues involved are both technical and perception.  Many of the existing scientific theories are used with both verified test results and with rationalized validation through consensus.

 

This last issue is the biggest hurdle.  Especially since I bring into question the works of Nobel Laureates in Theoretical Physics for the past 120 years.

When I tried to verify their results, I discovered that most have never been really validated or indeed verified with hard testing.

 

That result surprised me.  I had been taught that science was built entirely by independently verified testing.

 

That is not the case with many of the current Theoretical Physics Theories.  The excuse has been based upon the level of complexity and untestable nature of the issues involved. 

 

Using standard analysis of public domain data, I have been able to show that most of these excuses are not true and that those theories are false.

 

So my advice on any of the current theories is to trust but verify.  There is nothing, including ideas, that cannot be tested.

If someone cannot provide a theoretical model that cannot be tested, then it should not be used until sufficient model definition is developed and adequate independent testing can occur.

 

DAB

  • Sign in to reply
  • Cancel
Parents
  • jw0752
    jw0752 over 9 years ago

    Hi DAB,

     

    Testing for verification would seem to indicate that a positive truth value might be able to be assigned to the results of an experiment. The scientific process does not however allow for a positive result only a negative one. While we can show that a hypothesis is false by finding a contradiction no matter how many experiments that we run with positive results there may always be the next experiment that shows a contradiction. While many positive experimental results can increase our confidence in a prized hypothesis it can still never be validated as True. The scientifically minded person does not have a need for an inventory of things that are True but rather a set of useful ideas that so far give satisfactorily accurate predictions for the results of phenomenon or experiments. The scientifically minded person should always be ready to discard his idea tool or at least better define its operational parameters if it can be show to fail under certain circumstances. Newton's Physics is a good example of this. While much of Newton's Theory has been shown to fail under extreme conditions, (Speed, Gravitation) the laws are still within acceptable parameters for most human applications. So what is True. Not the Laws of Newton nor it seems the laws of Einstein as they too encounter contradictions when we move into the sub atomic realm.

     

    While you have some very interesting ideas it is hard to begin to use them for any practical purpose. Most people do not have the time for the re-education process that would be needed to add the new vocabulary and new thought procedures. Also my reading of current physics indicate that most of the current theory is being tested vigorously and ideas that fail the experiments are discarded or modified for special uses. If there was a need for a complete rewrite there would be many others up on the stage with you shouting for the new ideas.

     

    I offer the above as a trigger for the discussion that I know you would love to have.

     

    John

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 9 years ago in reply to jw0752

    Most people do not have the time for the re-education process that would be needed to add the new vocabulary and new thought procedures.

    Not sure that this isn't one of those 'excuses' rolled out whenever the truth gets in the way.

     

    I am aware that many people are scared to question people who have been elevated to positions of 'authority', either by good work in other realms, or because they may be able to offer explanations that fool the question asker.

    It doesn't mean their theory/idea or design will work (or fail), but verification is the only way to prove it.

     

    I cringe whenever some developer suggests that his new project (that usually needs funding or concessions) will bring in xx million dollars to the community ..... yeah right, and best of all, it's commercially sensitive so we can't show you how we arrived at that figure.

     

     

    DAB

    It will be a very hard road, and sadly one that may not recognise your efforts until long after you leave this forum.

    Hopefully we're able to say we were then when you told them so.

     

     

    Mark

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • jw0752
    jw0752 over 9 years ago in reply to mcb1

    Hi Mark,

     

    My main point in my comment is that Science is not able to prove that a hypothesis is true, only that it is false. No matter how many times we run a different experiment that doesn't disprove the hypothesis there is always one more potential experiment that may show our hypothesis fails under certain conditions. Too often when Science is talked about it is thought of as a collection of laws and truths, but it is more appropriately a collection of ideas that seem to work to make predictions and give insight to the user. There are no "Laws or Truths" in science. It is just a process which pushes a group of ideas closer and closer to an ideal reality.

     

    New ideas, like those of DAB are important in the process of Science. They provide another perspective by which we can test our current ideas to see if they can be falsified or refined. I have taken DAB seriously. I have read his book "I Killed Schrodinger's Cat" and I have made a pilgrimage to visit him personally and to hear from him directly about his ideas. I have also read other books by other thinkers who are outside the current approach to physics. At least for me I have not seen or read anything that would support a radical new approach. Many times the new thinker has fallen into the trap of proving a personal theory that has become a goal in itself. Part of the reason that I have not put more time into changing is that my needs with respect to particle physics are not critical enough to make a difference whether I understand the physics in terms of traditional particles or in terms of the "Tons" of DAB's theory. Further I was not able to easily accept many of the assumptions that lie at the foundation of DAB's theory. Just being told that all the Physicists in the world are getting it wrong isn't enough for me. Why is one theory better than another? This has to be determined by experiment. If the new theory yields an experimental result that is better than the previous theory then we have made progress. As far as I have been able to determine we do not have any such experiments that would discredit the current meme. Thought experiments are good tools but the final test is in a real physical experiment.

     

    John

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • balearicdynamics
    balearicdynamics over 9 years ago in reply to mcb1

    I agree with you Mark. A hypothesis is just a theory maybe expressed in a different form. We suppose something, maybe coming from an intuition then we try to deducts experimentally + previous knowledge + a lot of other possibilities that this same hypothesis is true usually in two steps: first starting from the hypothesis we formalise a theory then it's the experiment / testing loop to demonstrate true or false the theory.

     

    Enrico

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
Reply
  • balearicdynamics
    balearicdynamics over 9 years ago in reply to mcb1

    I agree with you Mark. A hypothesis is just a theory maybe expressed in a different form. We suppose something, maybe coming from an intuition then we try to deducts experimentally + previous knowledge + a lot of other possibilities that this same hypothesis is true usually in two steps: first starting from the hypothesis we formalise a theory then it's the experiment / testing loop to demonstrate true or false the theory.

     

    Enrico

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
Children
No Data
element14 Community

element14 is the first online community specifically for engineers. Connect with your peers and get expert answers to your questions.

  • Members
  • Learn
  • Technologies
  • Challenges & Projects
  • Products
  • Store
  • About Us
  • Feedback & Support
  • FAQs
  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy Policy
  • Legal and Copyright Notices
  • Sitemap
  • Cookies

An Avnet Company © 2026 Premier Farnell Limited. All Rights Reserved.

Premier Farnell Ltd, registered in England and Wales (no 00876412), registered office: Farnell House, Forge Lane, Leeds LS12 2NE.

ICP 备案号 10220084.

Follow element14

  • X
  • Facebook
  • linkedin
  • YouTube