Which famous engineer should be on an element14 sticker?

You have some great scientists, physicists and mathematicians in the list.

Beulah Henry and Tom Edison were great inventor/engineer types.

I would include Al Bell, Reggie Fessenden, Lee De Forest as great electrical inventor/engineers.

I personally am absolutely NOT a fan av Edison. He was a terrible person who had no qualms about blocking scientific development for his own gains (ref.: "War of the currents" where he spread all sorts of malicious falsehoods in order to sabotage Nicola Tesla's attempts to introduce AC technology to the world). Edison was an egotistical thief and liar who used and manipulated others. I do not believe that that type of person deserves acclaim no matter what his achievements.

That was a big surprise for me to know. I used to be a fan of Edison, without even checking with which methods he achieved his fame

It's not worth the fight.   There is a saying: "Sometimes it's better to be kind than to be right."

Hi Raymond,

I too did not find Jan's comment in any way a put down to you. I believe that we all have a tendency to spin the image and character of the people who have made significant accomplishments, like Edison and Tesla. It is easy to try to superimpose their world views onto our current world view and make a judgement about them. To honestly judge them however it should be by the norms of their own times. The facts are likely more in the middle than to any extreme of good or bad. In the past I have read biographies of both men and I have tried to understand the accomplishments and short comings of each. The problem is that great ideas and great accomplishments almost always come with a measure of questionable mental health. We are fortunate to be able to sit in the luxury created by the basic ideas of these two individuals and argue over which of the two deserve to have their picture on a sticker.

John

I wrote a four line reply to a four line position. Never thought it would turn into a case.

Hi ...,

(This is a response to someone who is offended by my using names in my comments, so i hope that no misunderstandings arise in my attempt to comply).

Sorry you find my wording distasteful or in need for improvement. My interpretation of "fanboy" is of someone who adopts a view mainly based on a popular trend (rather than merit) in order to be one of the crowd who places the object of the view on a pedestal - like an apple or microsoft fanboy. I have never had any respect for that mentality and never will. My first comments on Edison were made with a short explanation/reference that should have given an indication that my view was not of that sort. When someone then makes that kind of response - apparently totally dismissing it as a typical fanboy type of comment, and additionally makes claims about Edison, Tesla, and my intentions that appear to be very contrary to the truth, i felt a strong need to react - both with my view of the facts (which i also attempted to give more detailed information about my sources). My response was directed to the person who i named a couple of times in order to make sure that no one else felt that i was in some way attacking them.

..., I am not you. I strongly doubt that i think like you. I try to make my arguments based on facts and state the source of my information. If you cannot accept that my wording is not exactly as you would have it, then there is nothing i can do about that. I do try not to be offensive to people, and i am sure that when i attempt things the risk of failure will always be close at hand - also in that respect. But when i feel strongly about something - as i do about people like Edison and Tesla and fanboys - i will attempt to state my view. I have no acquaintances or colleagues here and was just stating my view as best i can about a topic in this forum. I am very much open to learning about any factual inconsistencies/errors that i may have stated (with the sources of the information) so that i can correct my view of the facts, but there is no way that i can ever hope to express myself as perfectly as you, ....  I read somewhere once that Abraham Lincoln once said something along the lines of "I may be wrong, but i can only do what i believe to be right." I am not him, and i do not think like him, but i do agree with that idea and believe that it is the heart of what i am attempting to express.

Hi Raymond,

You could say "I don't believe Tesla gambled, although there were claims,  they are incorrect according to xyz". That would be really useful information, because we all have different perspectives due to limited time to examine all text on Tesla or Edison.

It's not polite saying you find a colleague's ideas disgusting, and single out his name repeatedly in your response and prepend fanboy as a title. Words have different interpretations in different countries, and fanboy referring to a famous engineer isn't a word that I would find bad, for me it's just a word expressing deep interest in the work that person has done. The use of the word in that context was clearly just a remark, it should be taken as such. You also use the word fan in your response. I too appreciate the work Tesla did, just like Jan.. I don't have enough  information to know about Tesla's life in detail, but would have liked to hear an informative and friendly response.  I believe many would value learning more about Tesla and Edison (but please, without those undeserved comments about acquaintances and colleagues here).

I'm absolutely certain we all receive a biased version of history, sometimes deliberately but often accidentally - I remember visiting a national museum of inventions in one country, proudly exhibiting the country name where the museum was, but so many of the inventors exhibited there were pretty much English or Scottish : ) but I wasn't in England or Scotland.. They didn't intend to mislead, it was I feel accidental unfortunate naming of the museum, but anyone who didn't or couldn't read the small print written by the exhibits could have got the wrong impression.

Well, really, what can i say to that?: Let me begin by just saying that i am adult and try my best to behave as one. I find the idea of being a "fanboy" of anything disgusting and immature. Furthermore, i believe that Edison was a terrible person - not because of any desire to make Tesla "shine" by turning him into a devil - but because he did many despicable things (in my opinion). I will now proceed to give more details about these claims (my claims are based on documentaries about Edison and Tesla that i have watched, among them some from pbs.org as well as https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5khmpc):

Nicola Tesla was originally a huge fan of Edison. After inventing an AC motor, he traveled in 1884 to USA to meet Edison. He carried with him a recommendation from Edison's Paris office. He thought that if Edison was presented with better technology he would embrace it as something he could develop in his own company - presumably with his assistance. But Edison was heavily invested in his own vision of DC electricity. He hired Tesla and put him to work redesigning his DC generators. Tesla worked 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. Edison had promised him $50,000 if he succeeded, but upon completion 6 months later Edison refused to pay - dismissing the promise as "American humor". Tesla had had enough and quit after that. Edison apparently had a history of cheating his employees in this manner and stealing their ideas and accomplishments - not exactly the benevolent employer Jan Cumps appears to claim!

When Tesla eventually was sponsored by Westinghouse, Edison was determined to squash any competition and used any means to do so - also scare tactics. He claimed that AC current was extremely dangerous and publicly electrocuted stray dogs (and an elephant?) to prove his point.

As to Jan Cumps claim that Tesla tended to gamble the significant earnings he received, i would really like to know where that information came from. The information that i have access to indicates that Tesla was never interested in money - only in scientific discovery and the betterment of mankind. Had money been important to him he would never have torn up the contract he had with Westinghouse and relinquish all his interests there (which would indeed have made him a huge fortune eventually) upon being informed by Westinghouse that they were struggling economically. After leaving Edison Tesla had been duped a number of times for his inventions by american businessmen before he met Westinghouse. Tesla had a vision of a system for broadcasting free electrical energy to all mankind that he wished to realize. He initially obtained funding from JP Morgan under the pretense of developing radio communication. Tesla knew that Morgan was yet another businessman who was only interested in money, so he did not reveal his real goal. When Marconi eventually created a radio transmission (using Tesla's patents) Morgan lost interest in funding Tesla any further. Tesla's could no longer continue after "gambling" away the funds he had received on his research.

Tesla originally had great respect for Edison, but later engaged in conflict with him for good reasons: 

• Edison was dishonest and deceitful and did not pay him for his improvements to the DC generators
• Tesla knew that DC generators were totally impractical compared to AC (think about it: DC power plants could only deliver power effectively within a 1/2 mile radius. Imagine a world with power plants every mile!)
• Edison was dishonest and deceitful and spread false information in order to impede Tesla's progress

The above claims made by me are, as i said, from documentaries that i have watched about the great inventor Nicola Tesla, "fanboy" Jan Cumps. I was taught about what a great genius Edison was in school. I grew up believing so. I am no "fanboy" of Tesla, but i respect his vision, accomplishments, and (despite his phobias and quirks) his desire to make a better world for humanity.

Well, really, what can i say to that?: Let me begin by just saying that i am adult and try my best to behave as one. I find the idea of being a "fanboy" of anything disgusting and immature. Furthermore, i believe that Edison was a terrible person - not because of any desire to make Tesla "shine" by turning him into a devil - but because he did many despicable things (in my opinion). I will now proceed to give more details about these claims (my claims are based on documentaries about Edison and Tesla that i have watched, among them some from pbs.org as well as https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5khmpc):

Nicola Tesla was originally a huge fan of Edison. After inventing an AC motor, he traveled in 1884 to USA to meet Edison. He carried with him a recommendation from Edison's Paris office. He thought that if Edison was presented with better technology he would embrace it as something he could develop in his own company - presumably with his assistance. But Edison was heavily invested in his own vision of DC electricity. He hired Tesla and put him to work redesigning his DC generators. Tesla worked 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. Edison had promised him $50,000 if he succeeded, but upon completion 6 months later Edison refused to pay - dismissing the promise as "American humor". Tesla had had enough and quit after that. Edison apparently had a history of cheating his employees in this manner and stealing their ideas and accomplishments - not exactly the benevolent employer Jan Cumps appears to claim!

When Tesla eventually was sponsored by Westinghouse, Edison was determined to squash any competition and used any means to do so - also scare tactics. He claimed that AC current was extremely dangerous and publicly electrocuted stray dogs (and an elephant?) to prove his point.

As to Jan Cumps claim that Tesla tended to gamble the significant earnings he received, i would really like to know where that information came from. The information that i have access to indicates that Tesla was never interested in money - only in scientific discovery and the betterment of mankind. Had money been important to him he would never have torn up the contract he had with Westinghouse and relinquish all his interests there (which would indeed have made him a huge fortune eventually) upon being informed by Westinghouse that they were struggling economically. After leaving Edison Tesla had been duped a number of times for his inventions by american businessmen before he met Westinghouse. Tesla had a vision of a system for broadcasting free electrical energy to all mankind that he wished to realize. He initially obtained funding from JP Morgan under the pretense of developing radio communication. Tesla knew that Morgan was yet another businessman who was only interested in money, so he did not reveal his real goal. When Marconi eventually created a radio transmission (using Tesla's patents) Morgan lost interest in funding Tesla any further. Tesla's could no longer continue after "gambling" away the funds he had received on his research.

Tesla originally had great respect for Edison, but later engaged in conflict with him for good reasons: 

• Edison was dishonest and deceitful and did not pay him for his improvements to the DC generators
• Tesla knew that DC generators were totally impractical compared to AC (think about it: DC power plants could only deliver power effectively within a 1/2 mile radius. Imagine a world with power plants every mile!)
• Edison was dishonest and deceitful and spread false information in order to impede Tesla's progress

The above claims made by me are, as i said, from documentaries that i have watched about the great inventor Nicola Tesla, "fanboy" Jan Cumps. I was taught about what a great genius Edison was in school. I grew up believing so. I am no "fanboy" of Tesla, but i respect his vision, accomplishments, and (despite his phobias and quirks) his desire to make a better world for humanity.

It's not worth the fight.   There is a saying: "Sometimes it's better to be kind than to be right."

Hi Raymond,

I too did not find Jan's comment in any way a put down to you. I believe that we all have a tendency to spin the image and character of the people who have made significant accomplishments, like Edison and Tesla. It is easy to try to superimpose their world views onto our current world view and make a judgement about them. To honestly judge them however it should be by the norms of their own times. The facts are likely more in the middle than to any extreme of good or bad. In the past I have read biographies of both men and I have tried to understand the accomplishments and short comings of each. The problem is that great ideas and great accomplishments almost always come with a measure of questionable mental health. We are fortunate to be able to sit in the luxury created by the basic ideas of these two individuals and argue over which of the two deserve to have their picture on a sticker.

John

I wrote a four line reply to a four line position. Never thought it would turn into a case.

Hi ...,

(This is a response to someone who is offended by my using names in my comments, so i hope that no misunderstandings arise in my attempt to comply).

Sorry you find my wording distasteful or in need for improvement. My interpretation of "fanboy" is of someone who adopts a view mainly based on a popular trend (rather than merit) in order to be one of the crowd who places the object of the view on a pedestal - like an apple or microsoft fanboy. I have never had any respect for that mentality and never will. My first comments on Edison were made with a short explanation/reference that should have given an indication that my view was not of that sort. When someone then makes that kind of response - apparently totally dismissing it as a typical fanboy type of comment, and additionally makes claims about Edison, Tesla, and my intentions that appear to be very contrary to the truth, i felt a strong need to react - both with my view of the facts (which i also attempted to give more detailed information about my sources). My response was directed to the person who i named a couple of times in order to make sure that no one else felt that i was in some way attacking them.

..., I am not you. I strongly doubt that i think like you. I try to make my arguments based on facts and state the source of my information. If you cannot accept that my wording is not exactly as you would have it, then there is nothing i can do about that. I do try not to be offensive to people, and i am sure that when i attempt things the risk of failure will always be close at hand - also in that respect. But when i feel strongly about something - as i do about people like Edison and Tesla and fanboys - i will attempt to state my view. I have no acquaintances or colleagues here and was just stating my view as best i can about a topic in this forum. I am very much open to learning about any factual inconsistencies/errors that i may have stated (with the sources of the information) so that i can correct my view of the facts, but there is no way that i can ever hope to express myself as perfectly as you, ....  I read somewhere once that Abraham Lincoln once said something along the lines of "I may be wrong, but i can only do what i believe to be right." I am not him, and i do not think like him, but i do agree with that idea and believe that it is the heart of what i am attempting to express.

Hi Raymond,

You could say "I don't believe Tesla gambled, although there were claims,  they are incorrect according to xyz". That would be really useful information, because we all have different perspectives due to limited time to examine all text on Tesla or Edison.

It's not polite saying you find a colleague's ideas disgusting, and single out his name repeatedly in your response and prepend fanboy as a title. Words have different interpretations in different countries, and fanboy referring to a famous engineer isn't a word that I would find bad, for me it's just a word expressing deep interest in the work that person has done. The use of the word in that context was clearly just a remark, it should be taken as such. You also use the word fan in your response. I too appreciate the work Tesla did, just like Jan.. I don't have enough  information to know about Tesla's life in detail, but would have liked to hear an informative and friendly response.  I believe many would value learning more about Tesla and Edison (but please, without those undeserved comments about acquaintances and colleagues here).

I'm absolutely certain we all receive a biased version of history, sometimes deliberately but often accidentally - I remember visiting a national museum of inventions in one country, proudly exhibiting the country name where the museum was, but so many of the inventors exhibited there were pretty much English or Scottish : ) but I wasn't in England or Scotland.. They didn't intend to mislead, it was I feel accidental unfortunate naming of the museum, but anyone who didn't or couldn't read the small print written by the exhibits could have got the wrong impression.