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  • Author Author: nickgray
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Do Pure Reactances Produce Noise?

nickgray

I recently saw a question posted on LinkedIn about whether purely reactive components produce noise like resistors do. This, of course, would be Johnson Noise, also known as Thermal Noise. I do not recall any mention of such noise in reactive components (inductors and capacitors) in my studies, other than the that attributed to the resistances associated with these components. And there is not much written about this subject. The few times I have seen anything written about this, it is stated that reactive components do not have Johnson Noise. I suppose this is true in that Johnson Noise is defined as the familiar square root of 4kTRB, where k is Boltzmann’s constant in joules per kelvin, T is the resistor’s absolute temperature in kelvin and R is the resistor value in Ohms. There is no L or C in this formula and pure reactances have no resistance.

 

But, is there is any noise at all associated with pure reactances?

 

My thought is that there probably is some noise associated with reactive components, although I can not prove this. My thought is that this noise is rather small and results from quantum effects. Quantum mechanics deals with and quantum effects results from what happens on a nano scale.

 

It seems to me that electrons probably do not pass from one atom to another smoothly, but jump from one atom to another. This results in a very small energy spike or pulse. When many electrons pass (or rather, they jump) from many atoms to many other atoms, a small amount of deviation from the “normal” waveform is probably happening. This deviation would be noise.

 

The amount of noise thus produced would necessarily be very small. If it were large it would have been noticed and some study or research would have been done to determine the cause of this noise. If the noise is small enough by comparison with any other circuit noise, it might go completely unnoticed. Since the flow of electricity involves literally millions of electrons, the average amount of noise produced by quantum effects is more than likely nearly zero, so might be difficult to detect, especially if it was not being looked for. I would think that a search for this noise and the levels at which it may exist would have to start from a theoretical and mathematical viewpoint to determine whether such noise might exist and at what levels it might exist, but that is beyond my abilities and interest, even though I find the very question of reactive noise a very interesting one. Perhaps a Quantum Researcher or PhD candidate might find researching this to be an interesting challenge.

  • in reply to nickgray

    Hi Nicholas,

     

    The book is "I Killed Schrodinger's Cat!" and is available at Lulu.com and Amazon in Softcover and PDF versions.

     

    I introduce a very simple approach to solving Einstein's unified field theory and so far, it appears to work with all known macro physics issues, especially electronics.

    I am currently assess it impact on Chemistry and Biology, so there will be some updates coming as I get time to work out the details.

     

    One thing I have established is that the Amino Acids exploit the same mass/charge exchange at the atomic level, so I might well have found a key to understanding a lot more than I realized.

     

    DAB

  • in reply to DAB

    DAB, I do like your thoughts here. They are in concert with my thoughts, but you seem to be closer to the subject than I. I never thought of mass/energy transfer at the atomic lever being done by photons, but I know you may very well be right, although I always thought of it more as the way electrons move between atoms, as I have said. Either way, I think we agree as to the result. I do think that others probably realize that noise is a natural part of the charge flow and that this would be true regardless of whether it is because of the movement of electrons or photons. It would be helpful to me and to others if you give us the name of your book to which you refer.

  • You might want to get a copy of my book.

     

    I have determined that all mass/energy transfer at the atomic level is done via photons.

    Since photons exist in a tremendous range of mass and charge, different photons cause each atom to react differently as they try to re-establish balance in the electron cloud after they have absorbed or emitted a photon.  Those subtle variations can produce the reactance noise that you are referring to.  Different types of photons change the frequency components of  the charge flow during operation.  By default we call it noise, but I think I am the only person to realize that that noise is a natural part of the charge flow caused by the many different types of photons that transfer the mass/energy during circuit operation.

     

    Different types of materials react differently to charge/mass flow.  So you indeed get different responses depending upon the primary frequencies that you want to work at and the specific atoms in the material you are using in your components.

     

    As I am working through my redefinition of the atomic model, I see many such issues being resolved as I learn how the atoms really bond together.

     

    Hopefully I can capture these issues in my next book.

     

    DAB

  • Since Reactances are not linear in their response to a voltage, is not he dU/dt itself a form of noise? The next level of course is to ask if there is a second derivative d/dt (dU/dt) of this change in energy stored which would more appropriately be called noise. I am not sure we have to go as far as quantum effects to hypothesize this as imperfections in the materials used and the tolerances of the construction would most certainly introduce some form of second derivative fluctuation. The effect is probably small compared to the Johnson Noise. We are also straddling the real and the theoretical world in this discussion since we are talking about pure reactance but not pure materials and construction. Fun to do the thought experiments though.

    John

  • It has been a long long ago since my chemistry, but I do remember the valence of atoms. when electron get excited, the valence may change causing a flow. But this occurs on a low level. When you get to quantum level all kinds of strange things will happen and chemistry is one of these that gets tossed out the window. Till the two are explained, we have a gap of knowledge.

    Clem