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Arduino on a breadboard: two questions

Former Member

I’d like to try Arduino on a breadboard: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone

Two questions:

 

  1. Do I really need external 16 MHz clock crystal if I use Atmel328 with built-in 20 MHz oscillator?
  2. Can I use ATMEL ATAVRDRAGON http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=68T2063 for bootloading?

 

Thank you!

  • 1.  No.  However extra care must be taken as discussed here: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,128462.0.html

     

    2.  Yes.  The main function of function of the Dragon is to program machine code into ATMEL products.  However, I have no idea if it will allow you to load Arduino sketches into flash memory since I don't have a Dragon.  The serial communication techniques to load sketches are three methods to choose from: ICSP, JTAG, or  http://FTDI.  Hope this helps you.

  • in reply to billabott

    Little unclear regarding #2: having uploaded the bootloader using a Dragon - won't I be able to load sketches from Arduino IDE via COM port the usual way? I thought that was the main purpose of the bootloader.

     

    Thank you.

  • in reply to Former Member

    Your probably need to read again the page you quoted (using babblefish translator if needed).  http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone 

     

    Okay, I think I understand the difficulty.  I will try again to clarify.  There is no such thing as bootloading because it is unclear if you mean installing IT on a bare chip -or- running IT on a 'Duino to cause a sketch to be installed and run. 

     

    Think of it like this: Memory is partitioned into pages and the use of ICSP was intended to allow a field service technician to upgrade the firmware at the customer's site .  The bootloader remains unmodified on a Page all its own and helps to facilitate the processing of the Serial data stream coming in on one wire to fill up the other Pages of Memory.

     

    ATAVRDRAGON is an "Old School High Voltage Parallel Port with multiple write and verify cycles for each word" style programmer of machine code onto bare silicon and a industrial strength debugger.  It will allow a bare atmega to have the bootloader written into the memory of the atmega and then it will be an Arduino.  The discussion here seems to possibly imply that the Dragon has "User Mode" that just loads sketches and that changing to another mode and using AVRDUDE will allow the writing of a bootloader (and yes there are several to choose from).

     

    See this >>>>>  You need to figure out how to dig this stuff out for yourself (I mean everyone.)

    http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/start_now.aspx

     

    http://support.atmel.com/bin/customer.exe?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=1391

     

    http://www.atmel.no/webdoc/avrdragon/avrdragon.html

    The dragon user manual should have all the answers to your questions.

  • in reply to billabott

    Dear Sir,

     

    My intent is:

    1. Buy a bare chip (Atmega328)
    2. Load bootloader with ATMEL ATAVRDRAGON. This is departure from http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone that recommends AVRISP mkII. My interest in ATMEL ATAVRDRAGON is that it seems more advanced product that should include AVRISP mkII functionality. I’m also planning on using it for debugging.
    3. Convert chip to Arduino, attach to PC via FT232 USB Breakout board and start loading sketches from Arduino IDE. I also wanted to try Atmel studio.

    Does it look doable with Dragon? I just wanted to make sure it does before I have purchased ATAVRDRAGON device.

     

    My apologies for troubling you with these newbie questions. I do have some previous experience with bootloaders; I did not write one but I support one (developed for Freescale HC08 MCU) and periodically upgrade application firmware not unlike field service technician from your example.

     

    Thank you for your help.

     

    Eugene

  • in reply to Former Member

    Yes, we are in agreement, Mr. Eugene.  Sorry, if I sounded over-rotted, no offense intended; but I like to include as many accurate details as I can so that others who bother to search the archive will also benefit.  I tells it like I see it.  If I make a mistake; I hope someone points it out so I can learn from it. 

     

    Major Resource Find: "Hardware Debugging the Arduino using Eclipse and the AVR Dragon"  may be of use to folks using AVRDragon.  Now I am thinking maybe I will have to get one also!   But it is possible that Team Arduino will be coming out soon with a very inexpensive debug tool.  I hope so.

     

    Did you decide which bootloaders you will be testing?  While pursuing that question I found two useful references:

     

    http://code.google.com/p/optiboot/

     

    http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,64105.0.html

     

    FYI - To acheive the goal of wanting to make sure a digital device is going to function the way you intend to use it would normally be met by calling (or emailing) and getting presales info and support from the retailer of your choice.