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Arduino Forum Powering 2 12V Electromagnets
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  • ohms_law
  • volts
  • power
Related

Powering 2 12V Electromagnets

gub11
gub11 over 9 years ago

I am still trying to understand ohms law, which looked simple at first, and it probably is simple, but when i look at charts that have the laws for resistance voltage wattage and current, I get confused, because often times you are given 2 variables, how do you get all four?  My main question is what voltage would I need to power 2 12v electromagnet, would i need a 12v psu or 24v, or something in between?

Thanks

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 9 years ago in reply to gub11 +2
    You should never have an automatic lock on your bedroom door (especially if under 90 years old) for the following reasons: 1) It puts off visitors 2) In case of fire you will not be rescued 3) Everyone…
  • gadget.iom
    gadget.iom over 9 years ago in reply to jack.chaney56 +1
    Jack Chaney wrote: 12v supply for your power, and link the magnets in parallel. I would agree
  • jack.chaney56
    jack.chaney56 over 9 years ago in reply to michaelkellett +1
    Gabriel's question and the solutions that I have seen are typical of a great discussion, because the search for the solution is uncovering more requirements. This is not just good engineering, but great…
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  • jack.chaney56
    0 jack.chaney56 over 9 years ago

    Hi, perhaps this can help just a little.  First the ohms law stuff is P = I * E so you have power in watts is equal to current (I) in amps multiplied by voltage (E - electromotive force) in volts. Then the other part of the pie chart is E = I * R or voltage in volts is equal to current in amps times resistance in ohms.  The rest of the stuff are the factors of ten for milli, mega, nano, etc. Those pie charts usually have the equations for the different groupings added in as well, like  P = I2 * R

     

    Two 12v electromagnets are probably best connected in parallel, so the required voltage is delivered to both equally.  The factor that changes in this case is the required current is doubled because it needs to travel down two paths. This means you need a higher power output for your supply (remember P = I * E).  Remember have some resistance in the lines as well, or you could damage your power supply, a coil (which is the usual form for an electromagnet) acts as a resister only for a brief time in a DC circuit, then it becomes "saturated" and acts as just a plain wire after that, and will create an infinite current situation E = I * R or I = E / R when R == 0. Most often this is observed as thermal runaway (gets smokin' hot).

     

    So to address the question, 12v supply for your power, and link the magnets in parallel.

     

    Hope this helps,

    Jack

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  • gub11
    0 gub11 over 9 years ago in reply to jack.chaney56

    ok, That makes sense, but before I explain a bit more, What is the difference in wiring something in parralel as opposed to wiring it in a series.  My idea is sort of a small electromagnetic lock, where I will have a small butt that will send a signal from an rf transmitter to an rf receiver to turn on one of the electromagnets sliding the iron bar to the right, unlocking the door, and then when i press the button again it sends a signal to the other magnet, moving the iron bar to the left, locking the door.  So the magnets will not be active at the same time, and they will not be active for very long.  I wan't to keep the project small, and if possible, keep it hidden, so what would be the best way of powering this, possibly something that will fit in the wall.  I have seen small power supplies surrounded by metal that look like this http://www.mouser.com/images/meanwell/lrg/rd50.jpg , that take mains and convert it to dc, but i don't know how efficient those are.  My guess is, that if i want to keep it contained within the wall, I will need to use some sort of AC to DC psu.  Ideas?

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  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago in reply to gub11

    Just in response to your last entry Gabriel: What you're speaking of is a solenoid.  Energize a magnet, it pulls a rod up into the magnetic field, and holds it there until power is removed.  Rather than using two magnets on an electronic lock, a solenoid with a return spring is used.  Energized - The latch is pulled back into the body of the solenoid (open).  Remove power - The spring load on the latch pushes it back into place, and holds it.

     

    If you rely solely on temporarily energizing magnets to pull the latch both ways it will never be secure.  Once the latch is engaged and the "locking magnet" is powered down the latch-rod is just resting in place.  I've seen a couple of projects like this: the first was defeated by using an external Neodymium magnet to move the rod out of the locked position.  The second just required banging with a hammer, until the vibration moved the latch-rod enough.

     

    For your power you would normally use an AC-DC converter (yes, most electromagnets run off DC).  Pretty much all shapes and sizes; dependent upon what type of converter (full-wave, switching, etc.), what the max current output is, and power-factor correction.  For the solenoid system I mentioned above most are powered off the 120VAC doorbell circuit, in the U.S.

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  • jack.chaney56
    0 jack.chaney56 over 9 years ago in reply to gub11

    Amusing... Here is a clear case of getting the requirements established before deciding on a solution.  I think I am understanding the application you are attempting now.  My thinking, when you made your first statement, was that you needed both electromagnets operating at the same time, in which case they are connected in parallel. Instead, the application you described, the electromagnets operate independently.

     

    Working toward the requirements, how big is this "iron bar", how far does it need to move, and how quickly does it need to get there.  This will establish how much power needs to be exerted by the electromagnet. When you determine how much power is required, then you can select a power source that matches the load. For a standard door type of deadbolt, mounted in a simple slide, you could probably get away with a basic wall plug type of supply.  The second part of the puzzle is the switching, to open and close the bolt. You could use a variety of switching components, like relays or transistors to rout the power to the correct electromagnet.

     

    The other solution with a solenoid is also a good answer.

     

    Jack

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  • gub11
    0 gub11 over 9 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Then for my project, a solenoid seems like the way to go, I am seeing lots of variations in the design, would something like this work http://www.onlinecomponents.com/johnson-electric-195205230.html?p=43844222&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign… ?  I could figure out how to power it, I am just not 100% sure what type of solenoid i am looking for

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  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago in reply to gub11

    The solenoid you've got listed would certainly work, although you'd be designing a custom system around it; which can be frustrating.  The system that Lupe listed would also be good.

     

    I didn't find anything similar on the Newark site, so I went to one of the better "hobbyist" sites.  The solenoid door latch is about $15US, so pretty modest.  The full-on product is about $45US.  Another benefit to buying from this vendor is that they are great about documentation and instructions for use.  The solenoid latch (P/N 1512) is designed to be locked at all times, with a 1-15 second open period.  It likely wouldn't last too long if you wanted it to remain open most of the time.  The second option, mounted on the outside of the door with a housing for the latch (even just a U-bracket on the doorframe) would likely be better if you want it open most of the time.

     

    Lock-style Solenoid - 12VDC

    PRODUCT ID: 1512

     

    Solenoids are basically electromagnets: they are made of a big coil of copper wire with an armature (a slug of metal) in the middle. When the coil is...


     

    https://www.adafruit.com/products/2579

     

    Lockitron Motorized Door Lock Body

    PRODUCT ID: 2579

     

    Build your own smart lock with the Lockitron motorized door lock enclosure! Normally, a Lockitron has a built-in WiFi system for locking &...

     

    Building a solenoid yourself isn't difficult; although it is time-consuming to wind your own coil.  You'd also have to do at least rough calculations for whatever power you wanted to use, coil windings, and steel armature mass.  The power and control systems are a bit more challenging.  Working with magnets can be a whole lot of fun.  Working with electromagnets can be even more fun, but you have to be cognizant of power and the environment.  If you're using power from an outlet (called "mains power") you're likely working with 120VAC and a 15A current source.  That's way into the potentially lethal range; and you'd first have to convert it to DC anyway.  There are plenty of stories of fires started by an electromagnet with some of the coil insulation worn or burned away, resulting in a short.You also need to be well aware of what is around the electromagnet.  Back in the days of floppy disks I had a buddy who'd take work home and put his briefcase down on the couch.  His wife though it would be romantic to put stereo speakers up against the couch.  They turned on the stereo that evening and the disks were hosed from the electromagnet in an 18" woofer.  Magnetic field strength falls off as the square of the distance; so things don't have to be kept too far away, but you certainly don't want them too close.  All commercial products have some kind of shielding to limit the unintended field consequences.
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  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago in reply to gub11

    The solenoid you've got listed would certainly work, although you'd be designing a custom system around it; which can be frustrating.  The system that Lupe listed would also be good.

     

    I didn't find anything similar on the Newark site, so I went to one of the better "hobbyist" sites.  The solenoid door latch is about $15US, so pretty modest.  The full-on product is about $45US.  Another benefit to buying from this vendor is that they are great about documentation and instructions for use.  The solenoid latch (P/N 1512) is designed to be locked at all times, with a 1-15 second open period.  It likely wouldn't last too long if you wanted it to remain open most of the time.  The second option, mounted on the outside of the door with a housing for the latch (even just a U-bracket on the doorframe) would likely be better if you want it open most of the time.

     

    Lock-style Solenoid - 12VDC

    PRODUCT ID: 1512

     

    Solenoids are basically electromagnets: they are made of a big coil of copper wire with an armature (a slug of metal) in the middle. When the coil is...


     

    https://www.adafruit.com/products/2579

     

    Lockitron Motorized Door Lock Body

    PRODUCT ID: 2579

     

    Build your own smart lock with the Lockitron motorized door lock enclosure! Normally, a Lockitron has a built-in WiFi system for locking &...

     

    Building a solenoid yourself isn't difficult; although it is time-consuming to wind your own coil.  You'd also have to do at least rough calculations for whatever power you wanted to use, coil windings, and steel armature mass.  The power and control systems are a bit more challenging.  Working with magnets can be a whole lot of fun.  Working with electromagnets can be even more fun, but you have to be cognizant of power and the environment.  If you're using power from an outlet (called "mains power") you're likely working with 120VAC and a 15A current source.  That's way into the potentially lethal range; and you'd first have to convert it to DC anyway.  There are plenty of stories of fires started by an electromagnet with some of the coil insulation worn or burned away, resulting in a short.You also need to be well aware of what is around the electromagnet.  Back in the days of floppy disks I had a buddy who'd take work home and put his briefcase down on the couch.  His wife though it would be romantic to put stereo speakers up against the couch.  They turned on the stereo that evening and the disks were hosed from the electromagnet in an 18" woofer.  Magnetic field strength falls off as the square of the distance; so things don't have to be kept too far away, but you certainly don't want them too close.  All commercial products have some kind of shielding to limit the unintended field consequences.
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