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PCB Forum Solder paste viscosity - making the right choice - help please?
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Related

Solder paste viscosity - making the right choice - help please?

davebullockmbe
davebullockmbe over 1 year ago

Calling all hand builders.

I am building a homebrew semi-automatic solder paste dispenser to build one-off SMD boards.
I attach a picture of where I am up to below.
The system uses a 1mL syringe with a 22G needle being driven by a threaded rod connected to a miniature motor and gearbox.
The motor is controlled by an Arduino that can activate the motor for a variety of milliseconds to deliver the correct solder paste 'droplet' size.

My problem is selecting a solder paste with the correct viscosity.
Whilst testing I used various household 'pastes' to save wasting expensive solder paste. I tried toothpaste and Dijon mustard and the system delivered acceptable sized droplets (see toothpaste attached below):-

image

However when I tried my solder paste, the system delivered the paste but due to it's thicker consistency it continued to 'creep' out the needle after the motor advance.
Clearly the paste is too thick and unduly pressurises the system, slowly releasing over time rather than being delivered all in one droplet.
The effect is that I get a slowly emerging 'worm' of paste rather than a nice droplet.

image

So my plea for help is this.
Without going to the expense of buying a variety of solder pastes in the hope one is suitable, does someone in the community have experience of hand delivering droplets
of 'leaded' solder paste in a similar manner. And can you kindly save me a lot of experimenting, by suggesting a suitable paste please?

Thanks in anticipation......
Dave

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 1 year ago +3
    Solder paste will vary in consistency according to age, temperature and stirring. The stuff in small syringes is often of very poor quality - you should make sure you buy a recognised brand (not from…
  • davebullockmbe
    davebullockmbe over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz +3
    HI Shabaz well the current board I am developing is so small that the stencil cost would enormously outweigh the cost of the boards (which are £3.55 for 5 pcb's manufactured and shipped to my door) Also…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago +1
    A bit of a science-experiment level thought rather than a serious suggestion, but I've always wondered if there wasn't another technique feasible, which would be to glue down every part precisely where…
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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago

    A bit of a science-experiment level thought rather than a serious suggestion, but I've always wondered if there wasn't another technique feasible, which would be to glue down every part precisely where it's needed! and then, using very runny solder paste (warmed in the syringe), run it along the pads and let capillary action suck it up, so that it doesn't spread all over the board. And then reflow. Kind of like a cold upside-down version of wave soldering. Could even have a cooled PCB so that the flux quickly thickens.

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  • anniel747
    anniel747 over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz

    That would be interesting to see.

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  • davebullockmbe
    davebullockmbe over 1 year ago in reply to anniel747

    Wow thanks MP2100 that is a very helpful article.
    Whilst the text considers the shearing of the paste in a 'squeegee' scenario, I wonder what is really happening in my application where I am forcing the paste down a microbore tube. Is this going to shear and liquify the paste or cause it to compress and become thicker?
    I have seen an alternative solder paste applicator whereby the paste is supplied down a tapering plastic cone where the final 22G restriction is right at the point of application, like this:-

    image
    Is this where I am going wrong?

    image

    I did manage to deliver some solder spots yesterday (shown above) but they were inconsistent in size and very dry as they exited the needle.
    As you can see they appeared to have relaxed and become 'wetter' in the time I took to get them under the microscope!
    How do my observations correlate with the shearing description in the aimsolder article?
    I'm not sure that squeezing is the same as this 'shearing' action?

    Thank you everyone for all your helpful comments so far........

    Dave

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to davebullockmbe

    Even with quite large diameter tubes things are inconsistent unless conditions are perfect (freshly filled syringe). I can't remember the last time a syringe of solder paste worked smoothly first time. I always have to use a piece of wire as a pipe-cleaner to try to get it going. 

    For normal PCB use, I have a small tub of paste (not syringe) and use a metal squeegee and metal stencil, which I guess is what solder paste consistency (in good condition) is best geared towards. 

    If these are one-off prototypes (for which the metal stencil is not worth the expense perhaps), are there specific components for which you wish to use the syringe method, or for all components? There may be alternate techniques for some of the footprints of interest.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz
    shabaz said:
    f these are one-off prototypes (for which the metal stencil is not worth the expense perhaps), are there specific components for which you wish to use the syringe method, or for all components? There may be alternate techniques for some of the footprints of interest.

    For off-the cuff-application, where a stencil isn't affordable: a lot of practice with an out-of-box solder paste syringe works (for me). Without dispensers, without other tools. 
    If you practice, you 'll learn how hard to press to get an amount that can be used to tap a few footprints. And at what temperature it works the best. And to adapt the push based on the circumstances.
    Like soldering, it's a skill you can learn by doing it and getting the hang of it.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz
    shabaz said:
    f these are one-off prototypes (for which the metal stencil is not worth the expense perhaps), are there specific components for which you wish to use the syringe method, or for all components? There may be alternate techniques for some of the footprints of interest.

    For off-the cuff-application, where a stencil isn't affordable: a lot of practice with an out-of-box solder paste syringe works (for me). Without dispensers, without other tools. 
    If you practice, you 'll learn how hard to press to get an amount that can be used to tap a few footprints. And at what temperature it works the best. And to adapt the push based on the circumstances.
    Like soldering, it's a skill you can learn by doing it and getting the hang of it.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    How do you keep your syringe from clogging up? Of course, if the syringe tip is cleared to a consistent level each time (or a new tip is used), then consistent results can be expected, and the skill simply boils down to applying minute pressure manually to the syringe plunger (no need for the blue thing in the photo below - it's not very good anyway).

    image

    To try to reduce drying, I use a silicone cap (as shown in the photo) but I think it compresses some air into the end, and then that still causes it to dry up. It needs cleaning each time. I use decent brand solder, no AliExpress stuff.

    In contrast, here's what I did in about 3 minutes using a pot (not stored in the 'fridge, although I do keep a separate pot in a small fridge in the shed, I keep this pot for quick minor bits of work). I used a wood splint, and I think this would be totally fine with reflow, since the solder collects together, and it doesn't need to be precisely applied.

    image

    So I'm just curious what the actual goal was (i.e. any specific components that the user has problems with?), not the objective of improving the syringe method. Not saying it's not a good thing to solve, but surely the goal is what's important..?!

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz

    For one-offs I don't use this method anyway, apart from (say) QFN parts, simply because I'm fine soldering 0402, TSSOP etc with solder wire and iron. But if I wanted to reflow it all and I didn't have a stencil, then the above seems a pretty reliable way of doing it.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz
    shabaz said:
    How do you keep your syringe from clogging up?

    My syringe has an end just like yours.
    After use, I put the paste in the fridge, and consider the amount in that tip as lost. I clean that out later, with a paper napkin and a toothpick. Before use, I let it adapt to room temperature. While that's happening, I clean that tip. It's not a lot of paste in there.

    The thing with the "home use" dispensers is that they "dispense a given amount for a given temperature". If they are dialed in, and many pads have the same size, then they 'll be OK. But it needs that adaption for both pad and temp.

    I see many youtube movies of people reviewing a new dispenser positively. I rarely see a movie of someone consistently using them after some time ...

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz
    shabaz said:
    I used a wood splint

    I do the same for the tiny components. Some wooden contraption. Often a toothpick. Sometimes a chopstick.

    For QFN, I draw a line with the toothpick near the outer edges. For parts that only have contacts underneath the component, and there's no escape for excessive paste: dotting with the toothpick.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    "I see many youtube movies of people reviewing a new dispenser positively. I rarely see a movie of someone consistently using them after some time ..."

    Yes, this is why I'm sceptical that a simple automated dispenser will be any better. If one cannot use a manual dispenser repeatably, then it's hard to see how automating it (without actually changing the things that cause the issues) will be any better.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to shabaz

    Yes.
    For industry it's different. They have repeatable processes, better control over the parameters, and up-to-the-job tools.
    And even they have to dial in for each batch run.

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  • davebullockmbe
    davebullockmbe over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    HI thanks for the continuing conversation it's great to hear your experiences as I am fairly new to soldering with solder paste at home. I was not sure how consistent the 'spots' of solder paste had to be and your comments have helped in that respect.
    My dispenser is a throwaway system so there's no issue with drying up. A new 1mL syringe will be loaded from the paste supplier's syringe, and similarly a new tip will be used each time.
    I have also used a cocktail stick to 'pick' tiny amounts of paste from a larger 'blob' on a scrap piece of pcb but It's messy and the thought of easily delivering reasonably consistent spots of paste at the press of a button seemed very appealing.
    As you saw from my mayonnaise experiment, it works very well, it's just that mayonnaise doesn't reflow very well or make good electrical connections!
    I've ordered some of those tapered plastic tips, as I just watched a youtube video from a paste seller comparing the flow from a needle against a taper plastic tip. Using the same pressure and 'pulse' duration the paste flowed way faster from the plastic tip, suggesting far less restriction/friction. I am heartened seeing this as it means that the back pressure that is troubling my current system may be significantly reduced and be way more controllable?
    Or not...watch this space :-)
    Dave

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  • anniel747
    anniel747 over 1 year ago in reply to davebullockmbe

    Maybe you should try this. 

    image

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