USB update from Gordon, new direction

LOL

Beta hardware + alpha software + closed source + restricted doc + management focused on marketing

The management isn't focussed on marketing. It's a charity foundation focussed on the education of computer science....

As long as it's just me wondering what the money is used for and not the British tax system it's fine I guess.

The part I really loved yesterday was when the fanboys started to say that the Pi was no longer in Beta stage, as it was already rev. 1.3 hardware.

It's however considered being a development board, so it's normal there are some minor issus. Am I glad there only are minor issues...

It's all in the hands of Gordon now. I guess we already know who will catch the blame if things don't work out as promised.

For a charity foundation, they really play that game like a non charity company.

Maybe at that moment we will have (hopefully better) working alternatives and sales will start to dry up. People will rest upon the Pi usb issues.

It wouldn't suprise me due to that, they will say their educational goal failed. But they still have a few tricks in their big hat to boost up sales, like the camera module and the release of android for the 512MB version, so there is no need to worry for the near future.

Jonathan Garrish wrote:

 

Regardless of the availability of documentation it's still a big ask - all the information in the world won't help if there's maybe only a dozen people in the known universe that could thow an implementation together in a timely manner.

One of the people trying to bring bits forward to a newer device-tree supporting kernel already tried doing a proper hci usb driver and gave up, and at least part of that was due to lack of documentation on the synopsys core.

I'm seeing apologists over at the other place referring to the Pi as an ongoing beta and inferring that it's caveat emptor for anyone who buys a Pi for any purpose other than as a low cost command line educational tool and I feel it puts the whole open source philosophy in a difficult position:

That's all very well, but that sentiment needs to go on the top of the front page instead of the $25 tag line if that's how they really feel.

The open source philosophy is always in a difficult position in this regard. It can only work as long as someone is willing to donate time/funding to writing something. Usually that 'generous' donation has other motivations, whether a lone developer scratching an itch that interests him in his spare time or a large corporation funding development in a particular direction. It's rarely quite as free as we'd like it to be.

but to the 99% of people who just want hardware / software that doesn't suck then it's arcane and irrelevant. A bit more pragmatism required perhaps

Seriously though, how many of those 99% are really the target market here ?

The tinkerers won't care and the people interested in learning can actually learn a whole lot with something that sucks / or is broke just by trying to fix it to be the way they like it.

Even the smartest of us will at some point have to call upon the services of a plumber, mechanic, lawyer, or other specialist because we want the job done right. Waiting for someone in the community to come fix that burst pipe in the roof - for free and in their spare time - will only end in disappointment (and mouldy carpets).

Sorry, this bit made me laugh.. not sure where in the world you are, but here in the UK there used to be a program called something like  'cowboy builders' showing us exactly what some of those 'specialists' are really like.

I don't care what field of expertise you want to comment on, if there's money, shareholders (and lawyers ) involved then it's never about doing the job right, it's about doing it as cheaply as possible while charging the customer as much as possible.  Universal rule. Don't be surprised when it applies to the Pi or Open source as well.

It wouldn't suprise me due to that, they will say their educational goal failed.

Just IMHO, the educational goal has long gone.

selsinork wrote:

Luc Cool wrote:

 

Maybe at that moment we will have (hopefully better) working alternatives and [RasPi] sales will start to dry up...  It wouldn't suprise me due to that, they will say their educational goal failed.

Just IMHO, the educational goal has long gone.

At the US Hackspace tour last month in San Francisco, Rob Bishop said the educational release is stll (IIRC) another year off and it's up to the community to create the software to make it happen.  So IMO saying the educational goal has failed is premature.

OTOH, a year from now the cheap hardware picture could be very different.  While it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to beat RasPi's US$25-35 retail for a bare board, the cost of systems that meet RasPi's educational platform goal are dropping quickly.  For example, the new US$249 Samsung Chromebook has a dual Cortex-A15 processor (first in the wild, I believe), 2GB of DRAM, 11.6" 1366 x 768 display, and 16GB SSD.  Its default is to boot as a Chromium browser, but there is a "developer mode".  So RasPi may end up as a catalyst for cheap computers suitable for learning to program.  But this works towards RasPi's educational goal -- they have said many times that they welcome competition.

The educational goal justifies the foundation being a charity with a higher goal than selling Pi's...

We shouldn't stare on the Pi pricetag. It's like buying a pc mobo. It's not a functional system on it's own.

We already calculated the price for a classroom setup full of Pi's.

You will have trouble finding second hand screens with a dvi or hdmi connection. Finding some with

a composite input will be hard as well.

If you have classroom full of pc's, you can learn to program and learn how to use word on the same machines.

Not everyone wants to become a programming specialist...

When I look at scratch, it reminds me of something we had several years ago.

I think it was called logo and also had a creature walking on the screen... Not sure what happened to that one?

I already see classes here that force the students to have an ipad. Wouldn't suprise me the teachers get one for free.

How on heaven can you explain otherwise they wouldn't use a more open and cheaper android tablet?

Most schools already have a classroom full off computers. It's up to the teachers what they do with it, and up to the gouvernment

to define what they are suposed to learn with it. There is not much you can fubar on a pc with software, and alternatives like virtual machines can even help more in that. A good rescue plan like a proper configured image can also help a lot. Biggest problem is removing the chewing gum from the drive slots. Looks like the Pi isn't such a bad idea after all. (no drive slots)