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MOSFETs in linear operation

ben0127
ben0127 over 3 years ago

Hi,

Im new here, first post, and am a fairly junior engineer so could do with some help regarding a charging circuit. I am designing a mosfet based current control circuit with a P-channel (needs to be high-side) and am having problems with the mosfet destroying itself. I have done some research into the use of mosfets in the linear region so I believe I am biasing it correctly and not putting much strain on it, keeping Vds low etc,  but when trying the circuit out it works for about 10 seconds before a wisp of smoke and charming aroma fills the lab. I have tried several different mosfets now and had the same problem with each of them, all setup to work comfortably within specs. 

After some more research I came across "Power Mosfets" which sounded like the answer to my problems, several articles I read talked about how standard mosfets cannot dissipate the heat being generated but power mosfets can. I started looking at the datasheets of some of these to select some samples but each one I looked at had the same issue which, with the knowledge I have so far, has ruled them out. The ZTC point on the transfer characteristics graph was very high.

My understanding of the operation of mosfets is that they need to be biased on (Vgs) above the ZTC point so that they are thermally stable. This is one of the key properties I have looked for in datasheets, along with the SOA, but what Im seeing with power mosfets is, for example, a ZTC point at 20A with a realistically useful maximum current of around 20A. This is of no use to me as there is no range. The standard mosfets have a much lower ZTC point so can be used to regulate current over a significant range which is what Im looking for. 

Im starting to doubt some of the things Ive learned about these devices and so definitely need some help with some questions:

Ive got used to thinking that I can only use mosfets above the ZTC point but these power mosfets look like using them below it would be necessary. Im wondering if it is safe to do so, as long as you have a feedback system to back off the current as it warms up?? If this is the case, is it safe to use at Vgs extending all the way down to the Vgs threshold? 

During research another confusing piece of info I came across, which completely contradicts what I had come to understand about power mosfets, was that they can fail in operation above the ZTC point even when within the SOA. I thought the whole point of a "power mosfet" was that it could handle operating in linear mode? Isnt this what differentiates it from a standard mosfet?

Im starting to wonder what it is Im missing with this as it seemed relatively simple to begin with so any help or advise on any of these points would be greatly appreciated.

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  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 3 years ago in reply to michaelkellett +5
    I had to look up ZTC as well. Michael is making some useful points here: before blowing any more MOSFETs or spending money on buying more to blow in a similar manner, you should do a bit of research on…
  • dougw
    dougw over 3 years ago +3
    Have you calculated the maximum power that needs to be dissipated in your transistor? Are you familiar with how to calculate the amount of heat sinking you need based on the power levels? If you have amps…
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 3 years ago +3
    To make helpful comments we need more information. A schematic (with component types and values) and some pictures would be a good start. A specification always helps. Mostly power MOSFETs are not…
Parents
  • scottiebabe
    0 scottiebabe over 3 years ago

    What fet are you currently having trouble with and at what operating conditions?

    Loosely speaking power FETs are generally vdmos devices, they operate vertically through the semiconductor substrate. A tradition fet operates planar to the substrate. Power FETs can suffer from hot spotting when running in saturation at high power levels but the issue isn't very well documented.

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  • ben0127
    0 ben0127 over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    Thanks for the reply.

    Ive tried 3 mosfets so far (SPD15P10PLG, IRF9120 and IRF6218) and all had the same problem. I was running each with a gate voltage to allow around the lowest current they could safely handle (considering ZTC point) and with around 4V across the drain-source.  I deliberately gave them an easy ride just to see them in operation. They did their jobs but after 10 seconds gave up after getting extremely hot.

    I could understand the problem if I was really working them hard but the power dissipation is low, a fraction of the SOA claims. 

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  • scottiebabe
    0 scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to ben0127

    I congratulate you on observing the magic smoke hidden inside electronic components. If you are running your fets without a heatsink eventually they will get too hot and give up the ghost.

    If you are applying a constant Vgs to your FETs and expecting them to provide a constant current, your FETs will succumb to thermal runaway. The threshold voltage of a FET trends negative for increasing junction temperatures. So if you apply a fixed VGS the fet heats up, resulting in a higher overdrive voltage (VGs-Vt) and sources more current, which results in more power dissipation, and the positive feedback cycle continues....

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  • scottiebabe
    0 scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to ben0127

    I congratulate you on observing the magic smoke hidden inside electronic components. If you are running your fets without a heatsink eventually they will get too hot and give up the ghost.

    If you are applying a constant Vgs to your FETs and expecting them to provide a constant current, your FETs will succumb to thermal runaway. The threshold voltage of a FET trends negative for increasing junction temperatures. So if you apply a fixed VGS the fet heats up, resulting in a higher overdrive voltage (VGs-Vt) and sources more current, which results in more power dissipation, and the positive feedback cycle continues....

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  • Andrew J
    0 Andrew J over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    Good points!  I put a link to a video below to explain about MOSFETs and thermal calculations, but you may also want to check out this one from the same chap which talks about two other datasheet charts which explain what ScottieBabe has succinctly put.  Watch from pretty much the beginning.

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  • scottiebabe
    0 scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew J

    Great video. You can ask Scullcom for your YT subscriber commission cheque, they got a subscribe from me! lol

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  • Andrew J
    0 Andrew J over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    It's a shame he doesn't post anymore. Those videos were great when I went hunting about parallelising MOSFETs.

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  • ben0127
    0 ben0127 over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    Magic smoke is one thing but I think some of the little men fell out as well.

    Anyway, I have feedback on the Vgs so it is adjusted to hold a stable current and as I have been working above the ZTC point the heat should reduce the current. I did actually see this but it was too little too late as moments later it blew, so not a useful property. As others have suggested the ZTC point is not the critical detail to focus on so I will ignore it going forward. Heatsinking and overrating seems to be the direction to move in. 

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  • ben0127
    0 ben0127 over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew J

    Thanks for that, I will take a look. 

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