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Ask an Expert Forum Any interest in collaborating on a REBOOT for the Apple II?
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  • esp32
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See a helpful answer?

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Any interest in collaborating on a REBOOT for the Apple II?

barryhills
barryhills over 1 year ago

I am seeking a solution for a single pushbutton reset/reboot for the Apple II. In my volunteer work with young children (8-10 yrs old) using the Apple II they frequently want or need to reset the Apple II (we use both //e and II+). There are several obsticals to doing a clean hard reset on the Apple. The primary issues are the reset vectors in dynamic ram, the nuanced multi-finger reset options, and the fragility of the Apple II switching power supply. The kids need a one button reset for the Apple without hitting the power supply with another power-on surge in the hope they left it off long enough for the dynamic ram to "clear" and without needing to learn a multi-finger keyboard sequence.

I understand this project is a little silly, but I prefer to think of it as a small interesting technical challenges for the right person.

Here are some of the rabbit holes I have wandered....

a) I want to keep the base machine clean and thus want to avoid custom ROMs.

b) It would be "nice" to use the existing reset button on the keyboard but a tethered reset button is perfectly ok and what I anticipate will be needed.

c) I've always assumed the solution must clear memory prior to doing the clean reboot.

d) Mostly, I've assumed a small (minimal) I/O card would be the best way to cause an interrupt and pass 6502 control over to an alternate code path to clear memory and reboot. A plug-in card would also provide an electrical home for a tethered reboot button.

e) Traditional I/O cards use a small PROM or EPROM which is ok; but the current trend of using a SOC would also be ok if it makes programming and/or hardware for the new REBOOT code easier.

f) As a side note, there was a card called the "Wildcard" that had a tethered button that presented a menu when pressed. One of the menu options was "clear memory and reboot". It seems to be exactly the functionality I want but don't want a menu and don't want to hunt down a Wildcard for all of the Apples we have in our little lab.

Ideally, I would find someone who thinks a small project like this could be fun. My hope is there are lots of I/O cards, past and modern that can be borrowed from to make such a project trivial for someone comfortable with Apple II hardware. Software is my primary domain and while I am generally comfortable with hardware, getting into memory bus timing phases is beyond my skills.

Anybody think this could be fun? Any other clever considerations to accomplish my objective?

TIA

Barry

UPDATE:

A long time later this project is done.  Check out the story here...... https://csguy.org/technotes/white-whale-reboot-project/

image

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  • barryhills
    barryhills over 1 year ago in reply to Fred27 +4
    These kids grow up thinking knowing little more than icons on a phone. You are correct that the Apple is "my" passion and I am sharing it with them. But I would also say the simple nature of the machine…
  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to Fred27 +4
    Then you'd be amazed Fred. The STEM work at The National Museum of Computing involves lots of old computers - a lot is done with BBC Micros for example - as well as newer types of technology, e.g. VR,…
  • barryhills
    barryhills over 1 year ago +4
    A long time later this project is done. Check out the story here...... https://csguy.org/technotes/white-whale-reboot-project/
Parents
  • michaelkellett
    0 michaelkellett over 1 year ago

    Probably the neatest way to do this is to use a small FPGA on an IO card. The FPGA will be able to implement all the logic you might want and act like a ROM to supply code to erase the memory. It can also support a serial interface to allow you to easily add or replace the content of the pseudo ROM and provide some access to bus data and addresses for debugging.

    Some ideas re FPGA IO card here:

    https://www.bigmessowires.com/2017/12/07/fpga-based-disk-controller-for-apple-ii/

    I have almost zero experience of Apple 2 hardware  - all my knowledge comes from the Apple2 reference manual which I downloaded about 20 minutes ago.

    I do know a bit about FPGAs (especially small and cheap ones).

    (BTW - I had a quick look on Ebay for Apple 2 for sale - they seem rather expensive.)

    MK

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  • barryhills
    0 barryhills over 1 year ago in reply to michaelkellett

    FPGA seemed more complicated to develop despite the cost.  There are several new IO cards that use an ESP32 to manage the address and data paths successfully.  I own a BMOW disk controller and its definitely the direction I imaged, but  with an ESP32 or less logic if possible.....thank you 

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  • michaelkellett
    0 michaelkellett over 1 year ago in reply to barryhills

    There is a good set of articles from the Bald Engineer relevant to using micros to interact with the Apple data bus.

    My (very quick ) look at ESP32 based IO for Apple 2 suggests that it uses a dual port RAM as a sort of mailbox - the FPGA based design gives full speed ROM emulation - which I think is what you will need to actually run code from the IO board ROM.

    Worth checking before you rule out the FPGA .

    MK

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  • michaelkellett
    0 michaelkellett over 1 year ago in reply to michaelkellett

    Bald Engineer video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyMrzPP4KBk

    MK

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  • barryhills
    0 barryhills over 1 year ago in reply to michaelkellett

    I have been trying to connect with him but no exchanges yet.    :-)

    I watched his whole series on his mini Apple and was blown away.

    He is the reason I am here on Element 14

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 1 year ago in reply to barryhills

    Ping  baldengineer 

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 1 year ago in reply to barryhills

    Ping  baldengineer 

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