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Sensor Forum What parameters do we need to predict & detect imminent danger caused by a charging battery?
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What parameters do we need to predict & detect imminent danger caused by a charging battery?

HKPhysicist
HKPhysicist 9 months ago

Dear Engineers,

Every month or year, charging batteries cost human lives and total household destruction.

I have successfully developed a Flame Detector which sends alert to internet broker over a wifi router once it detects "flame" near a charging battery.

Then, I want to improve it and add some more parameters to predict & detect imminent danger caused by a charging battery.

What suggestions could you make to improve my flame detector design?  Thanks for your comments.  Upside down

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  • dougw
    dougw 9 months ago +4
    I think your temperature senor is a good early warning method. Other types of sensor to consider would be: leakage of electrolyte swelling of the battery outgassing physical damage such as…
  • battlecoder
    battlecoder 9 months ago +2
    If you have data of batteries that have failed, and the conditions under which they did, you could create a small predictive model. Three failure modes that are common are batteries being exposure to high…
  • anniel747
    anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist +1
    Chemistry of the batteries to monitor?
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  • anniel747
    anniel747 9 months ago
    This reply was deleted.
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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to anniel747

    The present version of my Flame Detector is very simple.

    1. It contains an ESP32 MCU
    2. 2 semi-conductor infrared flame detectors connecting in parallel to 2 potential dividers respectively.
    3. Another Microchip analog temperature sensor connecting to an analog input of the ESP32 MCU.

    This combination works very well.  It triggers alert when I light up a cigarette lighter near the infra-red flame sensor.

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    With lithium if a flame is present it's way too late.

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  • LLNC
    0 LLNC 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    make a silicone capsule around that battery to monitor volume changes with a strain gauge drown in it ... you'd monitor Pressure and Volume and Temperature... the IGLaw  PV = nR T .. 

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist
    HKPhysicist said:
    near a charging battery.

    How do you detect the battery is charging?

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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to LLNC

    Strain Gauge is very expensive, but can be an option for industrial end-users.

    My end-users are house-wives. Shrug

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    House-wives are more prone to battery fires?

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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to anniel747

    So I accompany a temperature sensor to be placed on the end-user's battery.

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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to anniel747

    They are especially careless.  We need to assist them to monitor their charging batteries. Girl

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    Most of all lithium batteries already have a temperature sensor onboard.

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    Also lithium batteries are quite foolproof regarding end users.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    Very 20th-century thing to say. I think you intend to mean your end-users are (say) less technically oriented consumers, which could be anyone.

    Anyway, I'm reasonably technically oriented sometimes, but I am still trying to understand the workflow that the solution that you're creating is intended for. 

    Most consumer products do not have removable Lithium-Ion batteries, so is the flame detector pointed at the product, e.g. mobile phone or laptop, while it is charging?

    The most sophisticated ways to analyze the condition of the battery will be to run battery measurements/diagnostics with electronics directly attached to the battery.

    What would be interesting, is if a charger (or other inline device) would automatically stop charging at night, and when there's no-one nearby, i.e. the sensor to be facing all the surroundings. That could help prevent fatalities when electric scooters etc are charging. But I bet some users would disable that anyway.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    Very 20th-century thing to say. I think you intend to mean your end-users are (say) less technically oriented consumers, which could be anyone.

    Anyway, I'm reasonably technically oriented sometimes, but I am still trying to understand the workflow that the solution that you're creating is intended for. 

    Most consumer products do not have removable Lithium-Ion batteries, so is the flame detector pointed at the product, e.g. mobile phone or laptop, while it is charging?

    The most sophisticated ways to analyze the condition of the battery will be to run battery measurements/diagnostics with electronics directly attached to the battery.

    What would be interesting, is if a charger (or other inline device) would automatically stop charging at night, and when there's no-one nearby, i.e. the sensor to be facing all the surroundings. That could help prevent fatalities when electric scooters etc are charging. But I bet some users would disable that anyway.

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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to shabaz

    Everybody assumes battery charging works as design and users use it wisely.

    and I assume misusing, low quality parts, accidents, etc. Thinking

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    Yes but for what scenario? People charging mobile phones? Or scooter batteries, or laptops, tablets etc?

    Is it like a fire alarm, but pointed at only one device at a time?

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  • HKPhysicist
    0 HKPhysicist 9 months ago in reply to shabaz

    So I am thinking to add more sensor parameters to my apparatus, such as even more flame detectors. Slight smile

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist
    HKPhysicist said:
    Everybody assumes battery charging works as design and users use it wisely.

    All BMS I saw take care to prevent accidents but bypassing safety features is always a possibility.

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  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps 9 months ago in reply to HKPhysicist

    maybe add a feature that allows alerts when internet  connection is down, or when the broker is down?

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