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Mac (potentially) for Engineers/Developers who use Windows.. Recommended or not? What issues did you encounter?

shabaz

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has made the transition from Windows to Mac and what difficulties were encountered. (I don't wish to move to a Linux desktop; as much as I love Linux for development, I would not like it for a desktop).

I need to start considering replacing my laptop, and it's tempting, from looking at the hardware specifications alone, to buy a Macbook Pro. 

However, I will have some legacy software that uses Windows. ARM64 Windows can run in a VM, and ARM64 Windows will perform x86 emulation, but I can't tell if x64 emulation is supported. I also have no idea, with typical engineering software, what problems may occur with connecting USB devices like debuggers. I don't know which hypervisor is most suitable for that.

For sure I'd need to move over to native Mac software to minimise the need to bring up a VM, but for a year or two at least, I'm sure I'd need a Windows VM to make as much of a transition as possible.

Depending on the above, I'd also need to think about whether it is worth it - because there would be a productivity hit since I've never used a Mac (apart from for a week or two about 15 years ago, when I decided to give it a go, and I didn't get on with it. Maybe I didn't make enough effort).

Any thoughts/opinions are gratefully appreciated!

  • in reply to shabaz

    Keep in mind decent GPU on laptops require two fans and you will definitively hear them speed up when crunching graphics.

  • in reply to shabaz

    i9 is lots of power, normal usage only use 3-5% of the CPU. Then when power is unleashed with heavy usage fans on the desktop go wild. Normally only the CPU fans turn mildly, even the PSU fan is off. 

  • in reply to shabaz

    Apple has a shockingly generous return policy.

    I bought a custom-configured iMac Pro from the website. Within the 14-day return policy, I found there was a very significant issue with the security co-processor and one application I needed. I took the iMac Pro to a retail store and returned it. No questions asked. (Actually, I was annoyed no one asked why because I had a few comments.)

    So. If you decide to go the Mac route, then test it with anything you are worried about.

    Worst case, return it.

  • in reply to baldengineer

    This is a great point that I’d actually forgotten about.

  • in reply to shabaz

    Shame you don’t live closer because you could have come around to try this stuff on my MacBook.

    edit: I really dislike that this Verint software doesn’t properly thread responses hierarchically.  This was in response to your post above about trying various programmers.

  • in reply to Andrew J

    Hi Andrew, 

    Thanks for that! 

    I think I'm 90% ready to go with Mac. I'm coming around to the thinking that even if I have to keep a Windows machine running for the occasional USB device, so be it (I have dedicated Linux machines too, so it's not too different I guess!). 

  • in reply to baldengineer

    That is good. Drat, I was kind of hoping to do this at at the Apple store but with my USB dongles:

  • in reply to shabaz

    I was expecting the Boot the Apple sketch

  • I had to go Apple because that’s the only way to build native iOS apps - Xcode only runs on Mac. So it was a reluctant move, circa 2010. I was still grumpy about Apple’s anti-developer and anti-repair/upgrade behaviour from the 1990s. And they are more expensive.

    Beyond app dev, it’s a bit of a gold handcuffs thing - the Mac integrates perfectly with my iPhone and iPad, as well as with my wife’s apple devices. IMessage is a big one, but also things like notes and reminders - I can add or edit them seamlessly on any device, and when shared with my wife, she can also edit them - great for shopping lists, but also for anything important where we both need the information.

    What really irks me about Apple is that they are so terrible about upgrading. I loved being able to take my basic 2009 MacBook a few years later and switch to an SSD and double the memory inexpensively and have it be super useable for several years further. The new Apple Silicon ones are completely not upgradable for anything. Even my intel-i7 Mac mini has soldered SSD that is not upgradeable.

    However, I’ve heard that external thunderbolt drives can be FASTER than the internal drive. A bit awkward, but it kind of gets around that hard drive upgradability issue.

    In terms of software, I’m afraid I’m too out of date to give any useful advice. I’ve noticed that more manufacturers are supporting MacOS now, probably because Apple has become so much more mainstream. Annoyingly, the tax-return software is still windows only (unless you use their online version).

    I do use VirtualBox (free open source alternative to parallels and VMWare), and it has always worked well to allow me to run Windows software. Using it has become very infrequent though, as most things are now available for MacOS. It does depend on Oracle’s plug-ins, so it’s not fully open source, but at least it’s free.

    For backups, I love CarbonCopyCloner - it’s set up to automatically copy my user files every few hours to a WD MyCloud drive in the basement, and that’s quick and seamless. My wife’s computer does the same. I have gigabit Ethernet, nothing special.
    For full backups, CCC clones my whole drive to an external drive. And it does so incrementally. I do this manually every so often, as it’s not hard to re-install updates or apps if it came to that. CCC was REALLY nice when upgrading my old laptop many years ago, as it allowed me to clone the internal old HD to the new SSD in an external enclosure, and then all I had to was swap the two. But… grrrr… .Apple. In the event of a full failure though, the backup can be cloned back to the computer, or to a new computer - quick and easy and minimal downtime.

    What’s strange funny sad, is that my most powerful computer in the house is an M2 iPad, and it barely gets used. I wish I could use that in place of my Mac Mini. You’d think that kind of docking should someday become possible. Wouldn’t it be great to take an iPhone and do all the usual development work on it by simply docking it to a desk setup, and then have it always with you in your pocket.

    In your case of maybe using a Mac with a windows VM, you can probably get some excellent deals on intel-i7 based slightly-used Macs, and then not have to worry about chip compatibility for the windows part. And I agree when others said they have a little windows laptop for the specialized tech software and hardware… that might actually be better and cheaper than a one-machine-does-all setup.

    Good luck with your decision! There are so many options available these days, I look forward to seeing what you decide to do Slight smile

  • in reply to ntewinkel

    Hi Nico,

    Same here, I barely use my iPad! People manage to use the for general office work, but that requires keyboard etc., so one may as well just carry a laptop it seems. I may be missing the point, since I've not used the iPad a lot at all. Perhaps large phones have encroached onto what the iPad was good for.

    For quite a while I used the iPad as a huge authentication tool, because I was going through a phone swap, and I didn't get around to transferring the authenticator back to the new phone! : )

    The lack of upgradeability is an annoyance, it forces one to spend more up-front on RAM/storage capability well before it is needed. Phones are going that way too, dropping the micro SD card : ( I refused to upgrade my phone for years simply because the 3.5mm audio socket disappeared on the new phones. Eventually gave in : (