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Forum RS485 polarization + common ground
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  • converter
  • rs485
  • grounding
Related

RS485 polarization + common ground

Former Member
Former Member over 14 years ago

Hi there Everybody.

 

I've had few problems with my devices with embedded RS485 tranciver.

 

I've constructed a USB<>RS485 Half Duplex converter witch is based on FT232R chip, and SN75176 (almost the same as MAX485). Well as the data sheet said, the RS485 bus should have terminating resistors on each end. Of course I've added them (120Ohm resistors). I've tested the devices in my workshop, it worked just fine without any problems.

 

The problems however started to aper after installing the devices in the working place. There are a lot of errors in comunication, a lot of dummy data. The reason for that is probably that when there is no transition on the  line (all transmitters are off) the bus is not droved by any signal and  is in HiZ. I've decided that the problem is in lack of polarization resistors (2x 510Ohm pull-up/pull-down on A and B).

 

Well the question here is pretty simple and short. Should I polarize the bus in one place (e.g. middle), where the terminators are (on ends in 2 places) or in each device?

 

Well for me its pretty simple, that the device should be polarized in one place (maybe two). I've read somewhere that all the devices should have those resistors witch I think is wrong thinking. From intuition the pull-ups/pull-downs will be to strong. This can be counted with a parallel resistors model. I really think that when there are more devices on the network the transition will be worser quality. What are you're thoughts on that?

 

The second thing I've wanted to ask is what about the device grounding. Should the devices have common ground witch goes along with the whole bus? Or should they be grounded from PE cable from the sockets? Well I've read somewhere that if there is no common ground and the bus is long the communication could not work. This is caused by big potential differential between places where the devices are.

 

I've would be pleased to here you're place on those 2 issues. Please mark in You're responses if its a theory or did You used it in practice.

 

Sorry for my bad English.

Regards

H-D

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  • gihu
    gihu over 11 years ago

    Hi,

     

    Is it possible that you have more than one device trying to transmit at the same time?

    Which protocol are you using? MODBUS? or is it just a point to point communication?

    Just the termitation resistor should guarantee that the differential voltage between signal A and B is 0volts, unless any device is transmiting to the line.

    About GND wiring, there are cable indicated for RS485, which has 1.5pairs, 1 pair for A and B, and the 0.5 pair(just 1 cable) for the GND, so I think that if you use a common ground it should be the same along the bus.

    Tying to PE, is a technique using shielded cables, to avoid electromagnetic noise, and you connect the shield to PE, (there are different ways) to avoid such a noise, and this shield must be connected to PE not to GND. So you should consider GND as a one more signal and it is not connected to PE.

     

    Hope that help,

    Miguel

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  • gihu
    gihu over 11 years ago

    Hi,

     

    Is it possible that you have more than one device trying to transmit at the same time?

    Which protocol are you using? MODBUS? or is it just a point to point communication?

    Just the termitation resistor should guarantee that the differential voltage between signal A and B is 0volts, unless any device is transmiting to the line.

    About GND wiring, there are cable indicated for RS485, which has 1.5pairs, 1 pair for A and B, and the 0.5 pair(just 1 cable) for the GND, so I think that if you use a common ground it should be the same along the bus.

    Tying to PE, is a technique using shielded cables, to avoid electromagnetic noise, and you connect the shield to PE, (there are different ways) to avoid such a noise, and this shield must be connected to PE not to GND. So you should consider GND as a one more signal and it is not connected to PE.

     

    Hope that help,

    Miguel

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