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Experimenting with Thermistors
Challenge Blog Thermistor Multiplexing – Introduction
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  • Author Author: scottiebabe
  • Date Created: 2 Aug 2022 7:43 PM Date Created
  • Views 16350 views
  • Likes 12 likes
  • Comments 9 comments
  • experimenting with thermistors
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Thermistor Multiplexing – Introduction

scottiebabe
scottiebabe
2 Aug 2022

As soon as I saw the announcement for the ‘Experimenting with Thermistors’ challenge, I knew I would be thrilled to have my name on challenger list. Thank you to Element14 and Molex for selecting as one of 10 experimenters to receive an assortment of Molex thermistors to experiment with. The kit arrived safe and sound and neatly organized on July 15, thanks to great staff at element14!

image

The 7 bead style Molex thermistors I received as part of the experimenters kit are as follows:

R25 Beta Wire Color Epoxy Color Datasheet
3k 3892K black black https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723307
4k7 3892K black blue https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723407
5k 3892K red black https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723507
10k 3892K black black https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723607
12k 3892K red blue https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723707
30k 3892K yellow blue https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723807
47k 3892K yellow black https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2152723907

The 3 ring-terminal mount Molex thermistors are:

R25 Beta Datasheet
10k 3500k https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2138601637
10k 3500k https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2138602637
10k 3800k https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable_assemblies/2138622637

Before you get too excited about the induvial unit prices, it is important to remember that these are not just bare thermistors. Rather, the Molex products are temperature measurement probes/sub-assemblies, with 1% tolerances on R25 and beta. They only have 2 leads and being thermal-resistors they are inherently electrically un-polarized. They aren’t ESD sensitive, within reason I suppose. Even better yet, they are extremely sensitive to temperature changes, the specific value vary per thermistor and over temperature, but typical figures are anywhere from -2%/degC to -5% /degC. The list could go own, suffice it to say they are more than just bare thermistors.

Who is Scottie?

At times she is an electronics designer and at other times she is a professional tinkerbell. She has been an electronics hobbyist the vast majority of her life and collected a number of technical hats along the way (and cute shoes) along the way. My contributions on element14 have been rooted in sharing my love, passion, and knowledge of electronics design with the other 700k+ extraordinary individuals who make up the element14 community.

The Experiment

For this “experimenting with” competition I have chosen a well defined thermistor problem that I am interested in experimenting with. Sampling one thermistor is great, but perhaps you would like to sample 2, 3, or even 16 thermistors while only having a single Analog to Digital Converter (ADC).

image

The are few different circuit topologies I can think of, each with their own pros and cons. As a result of my experiments I hope to shed some light on this topic and learn lots about thermistors along the way! (I already am :))

Golden Samples for the Golden Girl

I don’t have the personal means to create any of the cardinal temperature points on the ITS-90 temperature scale. So, if I were to make any experimental temperature measurements they would all referenced against a temperature measurement probe. Given the resources available to me, my measurement uncertainty budget would be at least 1 to 2 orders of magnitude off what a fully funded R&D lab could achieve. So, I don’t intend to focus on experimentally determining the exact relation between the operating temperature and electrical resistance of an NTC thermistor. From the circuit designers perspective, it is the thermistor supplier’s role to describe and document what the temperature-resistance function is. We only need to recognize that the relation is Highly non-linear and that thermistor’s resistance may vary by 2 orders of magnitude over a 100 degC temperature span.

As such, I have constructed 6 golden resistance samples that model the equivalent resistance of a 10 kOhm thermistor at temperatures varying from -25 degC to +100 degC. In the mechanical drawing for 10 kOhm thermistor (215272-3607), there is a temperature-resistance table. From this resistance table, I noted the nominal resistance at 6 temperature as shown my golden sample table below. I tried my best to select/construct an equivalent resistance from the metal film resistors I had on hand.

image

I measured the resistance of the samples in 4-wire mode with my 6-1/2 digit multi-meter (HP 34401A).

I will acknowledge that these samples may be slightly tarnished, in that they won’t model the self-heating effects of a real thermistor that arises from the I2R power due to the measurement excitation current.

Defining Experimental Success

In this element14 event, I only intended to author two formal blogs. The first blog is this introductory blog and the second blog will present and summarize my experiments, achievements, and learnings over the course of the 2 month challenge period. Additionally, I consider my forum posts to be my personal experimental logbook of my measurements and learnings. At the time of authoring this post, I have thus far spent considerable time learning/refreshing my memory on the theory, operation, models, and simulation of thermistors.

As far as I am concerned, If I am able complete the two required blogs for this challenge while spreading good cheer and perhaps a few technical insights into thermistors, I will consider my experiment to be a great success!

Now as the big element14 sharks circle the prize pool, (I’m told technical sharks have an supper sense of smell for coffee), this little starfish will tinker away on her experiments!

Thanks for reading and take care.

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Top Comments

  • shabaz
    shabaz over 3 years ago +1
    Interesting challenge! Looking forward to seeing the results. I've been puzzling with a slightly different thermistor multiplexing issue. Maybe once your investigation is complete, I might find a way…
  • javagoza
    javagoza over 3 years ago +1
    Good luck with your project. I will be attentive to the next blog because I feel angry with myself for not having understood the experiment well. I found the thermistor simulation very interesting and…
  • ntewinkel
    ntewinkel over 3 years ago +1
    OOOh!! This looks like a great experiment, scottiebabe . !! I was just lamenting the lack of analog inputs on my ESP-8266 based dev boards, and thought of multiplexing but soon realized that would be…
  • ntewinkel
    ntewinkel over 3 years ago

    OOOh!! This looks like a great experiment, scottiebabe. !!

    I was just lamenting the lack of analog inputs on my ESP-8266 based dev boards, and thought of multiplexing but soon realized that would be a whole other project in itself… I’m thankful you’ll be doing that part!

    I’m taking the easy way out and only adding one thermistor to my sensor board Laughing
    I’ll likely be doing testing on something like an Arduino Uno or Nano that has a handful of analog inputs readily available.

    Best of luck, I’m looking forward to your next blog posts Slight smile

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  • scottiebabe
    scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to javagoza

    LOL as you start to make more and more precise measurements all these little gremlins start to emerge. If all your thermal gradients are along copper, then there you are usually okay... But as soon as you have thermal gradients along connectors, adapters, probes (not always solid copper) you can start to develop thermal EMFs in your hookup wiring. 

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  • javagoza
    javagoza over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    Cool multimeter. I have taken a look at the manual, the section that talks about Thermal EMF Errors is curious. Thanks again, one more thing I'm learning.

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  • scottiebabe
    scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to javagoza

    No need to apologize, I will make sure discuss error analysis in more detail in the final blog :) 

    For example, If I measure sample F with my DAQ:

    image

    In 2 wire-mode it measures the resistance very closely plus some additional resistance from the hookup leads:

    image

    But since this meter doesn't have an accurate temperature resistance model for this Molex series of thermistor, its temperature readout is significantly off:

    image

    108.62 degC versus 99.89 degC ... lol

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  • javagoza
    javagoza over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    Thanks Scottie the problem was mine that I was comparing your golden samples with having a theoretical table stored in the microcontroller.
    If you use a thermometer like the one a multimeter can carry with a thermistor thermocouple it makes perfect sense. I have to read more slowly and not imagine things.

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