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Member's Forum Is anyone interested with the Z80?
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Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 151 replies
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  • z80
Related

Is anyone interested with the Z80?

COMPACT
COMPACT over 10 years ago

The Z80 is still manufactured today and I was wondering whether there is any interest for a community or discussion group.

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  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 9 years ago

    Did you know that the Z80 has different memory access timings for instruction fetches and standard memory accesses?

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  • gdstew
    gdstew over 9 years ago in reply to COMPACT

    I worked at Mostek maintaining the Fairchild Sentry testers used to test the Z80s when they first began to manufacturer them. The second computer I every

    built (parts, pcb, solder) was the SDB-80 which was the Mostek Software Development Board for the Z80 with 16K bytes (8 - MK4116 16K bit) dynamic RAMs

    which Mostek also made. The first wire wrap board I ever made was a 48K byte dynamic RAM board also using MK4116s that worked with the SDB-80. I can

    tell you there were a bunch of happy technicians when we were told that Mostek would be second sourcing the Z-80 and even happier when we were told we

    could buy SDB-80 kits and build them ourselves! Those were really fun days. I still have a Zilog Z80 in a ceramic package that says it was manufactured in

    Dallas even though Mostek was actually in Carrollton a suburb in Dallas County just north of north-west Dallas.

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  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 9 years ago in reply to gdstew

    Wow! that's amazing that you got such a large DRAM board working with Wire-wrap.

    Do you still have any photos or schematics of it?

     

    It was quite rare to come across Mostek parts in Australia. We usually got Zilog, SGS and Sharp.

    And from memory the SGS parts didn't support the undocumented instructions.

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  • raylec
    raylec over 7 years ago in reply to raylec

    (addendum to audio discussion)

    It would seem that I was not right after all in stating that various audio debates have become a thing of the past.

    (while visiting him, my son pointed this out to me:)

     

    - (as to the objectivists vs. subjectivists debate) a class-D* power amp has been presented at recent Munich High-End Show**,

       which is said to be "100% mathematically correct". The following statement, however, is the relevant one in our issue:

      "We build what we simulate and simulate what we build. ... We believe that all matters for the sound quality can be measured

       although we often have to develop new measurement methods that are indicative of the subjective sound quality. We direct

       all R&D efforts on such measurable metrics. If this does not agree with the listening results we improve our objective metrics."

       For all interested:  https://www.audioxpress.com/news/purifi-audio-promises-to-reduce-distortion-in-speakers-and-amplifiers  .

       For all not versed in audio who-is-who:  the people behind Purifi are leading developpers in their field.

     

    - (as to the being there - at recording - experience) Dr. Edgar Choueiri, professor of applied physics at Princeton University,

       has developped a 3D audio processor, enabling the listener to enjoy his records in 3D via a normal stereo set: BACCH SP.

       All we can do is hope and pray that MS will leave this alone, to prevent it from suffering the same fate as HDCD ...

     

    Ray

    *for all not versed in audio: the D does not stand for digital; class D means switching amps.

    **once again: HD Vinyl nowhere to be seen (heard), no news, no nothing - a hoax ... ?

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  • raylec
    raylec over 7 years ago in reply to COMPACT

    COMPACT  wrote:

     

    Take a look at this - I think it is impressive!

     

    http://www.fagginfoundation.org/biography/

    Sorry for this late response, COMPACT (seen too many doctors lately) !

    Thanks for sharing this fascinating, illustrated time-line through the life and works of one of the key figures in (micro)computer history.

    I knew most of the facts and figures, but getting everything presented from the horse's mouth really is something else.

     

    From the many things that caught my eye, let me comment on a few:

    - (1965) "The Olivetti Programma 101 ... contained a small computer made of discrete components ... ". However much my admiration for the

       development of the IC, I've never been able to commit myself to applying them in my designs, still (since the sixties) preferring hand-picked

       discrete components over 'black boxes'. That way I feel full freedom and more in control of things, although I'm aware of the drawbacks; so

       call me oldfashioned ...

    - (1970) "The layout of the Z80-CPU. Handdrawn by Federico (by two thirds) ... ". "Those were the days !" - no CAD-CAM. Has anybody ever

      assessed the error rate in both cases ?

     

    Having written this, I wonder: wouldn't we have been better off here, sticking to your original question and everything directly related, than

    wandering off(-topic) to audio nirvana ... ?

     

    Cheers

    Ray

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  • raylec
    raylec over 7 years ago in reply to gdstew

    The questions you've raised are certainly worthwhile, albeit far from new ...

     

    First of all, there is broad consensus, that audio is the art of reproducing sounds, recorded in one acoustic environment, in an other - usually totally

    different. As a (recent) result, room acoustics have become a hot item; with DSP prices coming down, ever more components in the reproduction

    chain - both amps and active speakers e.g. - are equipped with some form of electronic adaptation. While this may seem progress, oldtimer audio

    buffs (like us ?) probably wonder, what has become of good (?) old tone controls, or - a bit more sophisticated - equalizers ? The 'tilt control' on the

    QUAD 34 pre-amp, beloved in the eighties (and not much unlike RIAA equalization, COMPACT), springs to mind. DSP-based room-correction

    circuitry is said to spare you fysical adjustments, like COMPACT described; I don't think I'm convinced.

     

    As to equalizers, in the nineties we were allowed one afternoon to 'play' with the famous Cello Audio Palette, originally intended for studio-use, and

    the wet dream of many an audiophile. Although we really had a great time at the circular controls of that gem, we had second thoughts afterwards:

    had we not in fact been indulging ourselves in 'bettering' recordings of top-notch mastering engineers ? Who did we think we were ?! Our host had

    'encoded' the favourite tracks on his discs with the letters of the controls and the corresponding numbers of the scale settings ... (audiot).

     

    Live vs. recorded comparisons were popular in both the UK and USA during the fifties, aiming at answering the question: how close have we come

    with HiFi ? It was reported frequently that even highly experienced audiences (regular concert visitors) sometimes had trouble discerning one from

    the other. But this only works in the same room, with the speakers exactly positioned, where the instruments/vocalists were before (and everything

    else also kept constant, preferably). So there's not much hope of ever bridging the gap from concert hall/studio to listening room ... And "Bringing

    the concert hall to your living room" a bluddy (marketing) lie !

     

    The 'being there (present)' experience /illusion is in fact the last frontier in high-end audio. When auditioning a Cello set with Martin Logan CLS,

    a much more experienced audiophile commented: "Ah, this is precisely the sort of set that enables you to hear a fly fart on the rear wall of the

    recording studio !". That made us think: are we chasing ultra resolution in sound reproduction, or is our real aim musical satisfaction ? It took some

    time to cure ourselves of 'audiophilia nervosa', but we have since been enjoying our music via much more down-to-earth equipment.

    Stereo is btw. as much an illusion (and this goes as well for 'glued-together-again' digital signal samples, in an attempt to mimic analog sound).

     

    I believe, though, ultimately most people do not care that they are listening to illusions, nor how far off they are from reality - they've simply come

    to like them !

     

    I hope you see my point: this kind of discussions is in fact a thing of the past, and when repeated all the same, bound to be ... pointless.

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  • gdstew
    gdstew over 7 years ago in reply to COMPACT

    "The whole audiophile experience is subjective."

     

    That was exactly my point, aimed directly at Ray.  The problem with subjective interpretation of audio reproduction is

    that it is always "in the ear of the beholder".

     

     

    "and audiophiles are passionate of what constitutes a great sound"

     

    They just can't explain in objective terms what constitutes that great sound. And there is clearly such a thing as being

    too passionate. That is one reason why the ear of the beholder is not a good thing.

     

     

    "The recorded sound may not be technically perfect but it sure does sound crisp and clear."

     

    There are a few acoustic instruments that produce sound that is not crisp and clear, a muted horn is a good

    example. Various kinds of distortion are widely used with electronic instruments and some of these also produce

    sound that is not crisp and clear. Does a crisp and clear reproduction of these instruments constitute great sound?

    It does not represent a faithful reproduction of the instrument's sound in the acoustic environment where it was

    made (being there as you previously put it). And to me that faithful reproduction is what constitutes a "great sound".

    It's just not possible to do, at least for now, no matter how much technology, subjective audiophile BS, or money

    thrown at it.

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  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 7 years ago in reply to gdstew

    The whole audiophile experience is subjective.

    Our universe conspires to prevent perfect recording and playback and audiophiles are passionate of what constitutes a great sound.

    I wish that some Astronauts would set up some speakers and microphones outside the International Space Station to see how well they work.

     

    Here is one audiophile's take on things. Have a listen for 90 seconds.

    This video is unavailable.
    You don't have permission to edit metadata of this video.

     

     

    The Australian company RODE is successful making microphones and associated paraphernalia. The recorded sound may not be technically perfect but it sure does sound crisp and clear.

    Their latest offering is a wireless Lavalier microphone transmitter receiver combination for digital cameras. ("Go") which is very convenient.

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  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 7 years ago in reply to gdstew

    The whole audiophile experience is subjective.

    Our universe conspires to prevent perfect recording and playback and audiophiles are passionate of what constitutes a great sound.

    I wish that some Astronauts would set up some speakers and microphones outside the International Space Station to see how well they work.

     

    Here is one audiophile's take on things. Have a listen for 90 seconds.

    This video is unavailable.
    You don't have permission to edit metadata of this video.

     

     

    The Australian company RODE is successful making microphones and associated paraphernalia. The recorded sound may not be technically perfect but it sure does sound crisp and clear.

    Their latest offering is a wireless Lavalier microphone transmitter receiver combination for digital cameras. ("Go") which is very convenient.

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  • gdstew
    gdstew over 7 years ago in reply to COMPACT

    "The whole audiophile experience is subjective."

     

    That was exactly my point, aimed directly at Ray.  The problem with subjective interpretation of audio reproduction is

    that it is always "in the ear of the beholder".

     

     

    "and audiophiles are passionate of what constitutes a great sound"

     

    They just can't explain in objective terms what constitutes that great sound. And there is clearly such a thing as being

    too passionate. That is one reason why the ear of the beholder is not a good thing.

     

     

    "The recorded sound may not be technically perfect but it sure does sound crisp and clear."

     

    There are a few acoustic instruments that produce sound that is not crisp and clear, a muted horn is a good

    example. Various kinds of distortion are widely used with electronic instruments and some of these also produce

    sound that is not crisp and clear. Does a crisp and clear reproduction of these instruments constitute great sound?

    It does not represent a faithful reproduction of the instrument's sound in the acoustic environment where it was

    made (being there as you previously put it). And to me that faithful reproduction is what constitutes a "great sound".

    It's just not possible to do, at least for now, no matter how much technology, subjective audiophile BS, or money

    thrown at it.

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