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Member's Forum Do you have a right to privacy of your source code?
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  • Replies 54 replies
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  • privacy
  • programming
  • copyright
  • code
Related

Do you have a right to privacy of your source code?

cstanton
cstanton over 2 years ago

As an individual, if you write a program and share the binary of that, should the expectancy be that you share its source code?

You might not want to share the source code, for example, you can very easily be judged based on that source code, both professionally and personally.

I've known people purposefully not post their code on Git Hub because they know employers will scrutinize and judge it, and in fact others observe how many 'regular commits' you do. Whether or not such judgment is fair is out of scope, but it's certainly something that's in the public eye at that point.

So perhaps you release a compiled binary because you want to help, but you don't want to invite conversations about the code, make it publicly displayed, or maybe there are other reasons.

However, someone comes along, decompiles the binary, reverse engineers it with ida pro, and releases the source code - citing that they have every right to do that, and now everyone can see the code, even though it's against your wishes.

Who was in the wrong? Or was no one in the wrong? Does it go to copyright since there was no license? Or was there an implied license?

There certainly appears to be a strong sense of justice among those online, that insists "it's just code" and "there's a right to transparency".

But there feels like there's something here that may not stand up to this scrutiny and this cavalier attitude of someone's work. Comparatively in the art world, someone creates a piece of art, and recently those components are being re-used in the case of AI (stable diffusion) and there's an uproar, but aren't they just laying the components bare? Maybe the analogy doesn't quite fit, but it certainly feels like for some reason code, by some, is treat differently to other mediums. Even though there are patents, copyrights, licenses, etc.

It could be difficult or even impossible for an individual to do something about this without financial backing, too. Especially compared to companies.

What do you think?

Edit: If you're picking up on spelling errors rather than the topic and context of the post, you're easily distracted. ;)

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Top Replies

  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 2 years ago +5
    This is a tricky one, but short of having a license agreement which forbids it, I can’t see reverse engineering being a problem. Imagine you go to a burger joint and order a burger to take away. Nobody…
  • dougw
    dougw over 2 years ago +4
    My understanding.... Source code is automatically copyrighted and you have control over how the work is used. If you don't register it with a copyright office, it gets harder to prove ownership, but…
  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave over 2 years ago +4
    shabaz said: So many scenarios, e.g. people deliberately sitting on firmware with no updates for users, going out of business, etc. One area that I'm currently faced with is with engine management systems…
Parents
  • dougw
    dougw over 2 years ago

    My understanding....

    Source code is automatically copyrighted and you have control over how the work is used. If you don't register it with a copyright office, it gets harder to prove ownership, but doesn't change your rights to the work.

    I'm not a fan of it, but that is how it is.

    If some source code is reconstructed from some binary and altered enough, it would be hard to prove it was copied, but if proven to be a copy, it would not be legal.

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  • dougw
    dougw over 2 years ago

    My understanding....

    Source code is automatically copyrighted and you have control over how the work is used. If you don't register it with a copyright office, it gets harder to prove ownership, but doesn't change your rights to the work.

    I'm not a fan of it, but that is how it is.

    If some source code is reconstructed from some binary and altered enough, it would be hard to prove it was copied, but if proven to be a copy, it would not be legal.

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 2 years ago in reply to dougw

    Also, default copyright rights (is that like ATM machine?) vary by jurisdiction.

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  • dougw
    dougw over 2 years ago in reply to baldengineer

    Only about 6 countries have not signed the Berne Convention or the TRIPS Agreement.

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  • cstanton
    cstanton over 2 years ago in reply to dougw

    I figured I'd ask a certain AI as a quick reference since I hadn't heard of the convention or agreement before:

    As of September 2021, the following countries had not signed the Berne Convention:

    1. Eritrea
    2. Iran
    3. Kiribati
    4. Marshall Islands
    5. Palau
    6. San Marino
    7. Sint Maarten
    8. Turkmenistan
    9. Tuvalu

    As of September 2021, the following countries had not become parties to the TRIPS Agreement:

    1. East Timor
    2. Kiribati
    3. Marshall Islands
    4. Micronesia
    5. Nauru
    6. Niue
    7. Palau
    8. Papua New Guinea
    9. Samoa
    10. Solomon Islands
    11. South Sudan
    12. Turkmenistan
    13. Tuvalu
    14. Vanuatu
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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 2 years ago in reply to cstanton

    So, most countries agree to the concept. I saw the same lists on Wikipedia. I didn't need to use AI.

    However, it may help create a wrong picture by asking: "How many (actually) enforce copyright laws?"

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  • ntewinkel
    ntewinkel over 2 years ago in reply to baldengineer
    baldengineer said:
    "How many (actually) enforce copyright laws?"

    Or perhaps more accurately, how many actually enforce it for the average person who can’t afford to pay a fortune to lawyers?

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  • ggabe
    ggabe over 2 years ago in reply to baldengineer

    Most copyright violations become civil litigations. Severe copyright violation can be a criminal case, and that's where enforcement comes in. 

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  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave over 2 years ago in reply to ntewinkel

    If I recall correctly, actual breaches of copyright can only be determined by a court of law which complicates things further.

    Two people could reverse engineer the same binary, modify it in the same way and sell it. One could be found guilty of breach of copyright, and the other found not guilty depending on which court session heard the case.

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  • bradfordmiller
    bradfordmiller over 2 years ago in reply to dougw

    I'm not sure that's the case: copyright covers the expression but not the actual idea (for that you need a patent). So if you've copyrighted some source code and it's transformed in a way that is not just language translation then I don't think it would be covered by copyright. Thus source -> binary -> source would probably generate a new "work" for copyright purposes.

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  • cstanton
    cstanton over 2 years ago in reply to bradfordmiller
    bradfordmiller said:
    Thus source -> binary -> source would probably generate a new "work" for copyright purposes.

    Is it a new work if it looks exactly the same and does the same function? It's possible to get that from decompiling back to the source.

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  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave over 2 years ago in reply to cstanton
    cstanton said:
    Is it a new work if it looks exactly the same and does the same function?

    You and I could both write a 'blinky' sketch that performs the same functionality. We'd each automatically have copyright on our version of the source code. 

    Now decompile each binary and compare the source.

    cstanton said:
    It's possible to get that from decompiling back to the source.

    If you decompile from a binary then you are likely to get a source that includes all the optimisations that the compiler included when compiling. So it will look very different (and often appear to do things in strange ways just because it takes less clock cycles to do it that way).

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