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Member's Forum LoRa or wifi ..... max received signal strength -20bBm?
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Related

LoRa or wifi ..... max received signal strength -20bBm?

davebullockmbe
davebullockmbe over 2 years ago

Can someone explain why no matter how close I place my two Lora evaluation modules next to one another (or my phone to my wifi hub) I never achieve a signal strength higher than -20dBm?

Is there some form of AGC in the receivers that prevents the input from exceeding -20dBm input, or do the TX/RX combinations communicate with each other to throttle back the TX power?
I have been bemused by this when fiddling with wifi in the past,  but now I find that Lora is exhibiting the same behaviour despite the specified TX power being much greater and the antennas almost touching one another.. 
Clearly I am missing something? 
Can someone point me to the idiot's guide as to why this is occurring please?

Thanks
Dave

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  • anniel747
    anniel747 over 2 years ago

    ADR function.

     

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  • davebullockmbe
    davebullockmbe over 2 years ago in reply to anniel747

    Hi thanks for your replies.

    Yes but WHY -20dBm ?
    What scientific principle limits receivers to only report -20dBm no matter how strong the field strength?
    I just tested my mobile phone running 'wifi analyser' app. near my wifi hub and from about 40cm to right against the hub the signal never wavered from -25dBm. A normal CW signal would have varied logarithmically as expected according to the laws of physics (ignoring multipath!)
    What anomaly of physics are these devices employing to "defy the laws of physics Jim"?
    Joking aside, I know -20dBm is recognised as a strong signal, but why -20dBm and not 0dBm or +20dBm.
    I have mostly measured RF power referenced to zero dBm so what's going on?
    Dave

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  • kmikemoo
    kmikemoo over 2 years ago in reply to davebullockmbe

    Just guessing here, but -20dB in radio is 100uV.  Maybe there's a clamping circuit in the chip to keep the front end from being overloaded.  With it being consistent, it's got to be a feature - not a coincidence.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to kmikemoo

    Also some of the radio chips are so complicated, that it's easy to wrongly compute the measurement, or display a measurement that has not been adjusted to compensate for all the settings.

    I don't know what LoRa chip is being used, but the (extremely popular) SX1276 has (seemingly unresolved) comments on the Internet concerning how to translate register values into a dB value. Some people reporting discrepancies in the multiple tens of dB. For that chip at least, the formula depends on if it's LoRa or FSK (the chip can perform both options), and on the SNR value reported in a different register, and whether per-packet measurements are being used (which for some reason are inaccurate) or a non-packet measurement (yet again, a different register for that), plus it's dependent on an amplifier gain setting. Plus there's an error in linearity noticeably at large signal levels for that chip apparently. But I don't know what chip is being used, nor what software, so someone might need to also do that investigation, and perhaps change register values to see the effect, if it was really important to get to the bottom of it. And doing all that, the value is still meaningless if the two antennas are right next to each other.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to kmikemoo

    Also some of the radio chips are so complicated, that it's easy to wrongly compute the measurement, or display a measurement that has not been adjusted to compensate for all the settings.

    I don't know what LoRa chip is being used, but the (extremely popular) SX1276 has (seemingly unresolved) comments on the Internet concerning how to translate register values into a dB value. Some people reporting discrepancies in the multiple tens of dB. For that chip at least, the formula depends on if it's LoRa or FSK (the chip can perform both options), and on the SNR value reported in a different register, and whether per-packet measurements are being used (which for some reason are inaccurate) or a non-packet measurement (yet again, a different register for that), plus it's dependent on an amplifier gain setting. Plus there's an error in linearity noticeably at large signal levels for that chip apparently. But I don't know what chip is being used, nor what software, so someone might need to also do that investigation, and perhaps change register values to see the effect, if it was really important to get to the bottom of it. And doing all that, the value is still meaningless if the two antennas are right next to each other.

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