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Forum Series RC circuits in parallel
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  • rc circuits
  • mathematics
  • equivalent circuits
Related

Series RC circuits in parallel

Former Member
Former Member over 8 years ago

Morning all, happy new year!

 

Mathematical query today, one of simplification:

 

The circuit

image

Here we have a parallel circuit of two identical series RC circuits.  I.E. both resistors are identical and both caps are identical (this is key).

 

The question:

What is the equivalent circuit as a single series RC circuit.  I.E. what are the equivalent resistor and cap values?

image

I'm certain there is a solution to this when the parallel circuits are identical.  I'm aware that if they weren't there would be oscillation etc, but this isn't relevant in this case...in a way it is just two high ESR caps in parallel.

 

Many thanks

 

Simon

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 8 years ago in reply to jc2048 +4
    That's positively evil.
  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago +3 verified
    Hi Simon, It's exactly like two caps in parallel regardless of their ESR as all caps still have some resistance, even low ESR ones, so this is just what you would see with any bulk decoupling caps in parallel…
  • jc2048
    jc2048 over 8 years ago +3 suggested
    Rats! A Champion got there before me. My answer was going to be this (I'll post it anyway because it's a different approach): If the two sides are identical, the voltages at the nodes between the resistors…
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  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 over 8 years ago

    Rats! A Champion got there before me. My answer was going to be this (I'll post it anyway because it's a different approach):

     

    If the two sides are identical, the voltages at the nodes between the resistors and capacitors are identical too. That means you could join those points with a piece of wire and nothing would change - there can't be a current flow in the wire because the end potentials are the same. Your new circuit is then simply two resistors in parallel and two capacitors in parallel. So the top resistor is r/2 and the bottom capacitor is 2 x c.

     

    Whilst it sounds very artificial in this question, it's essentially why having a lot of identical small ceramic capacitors spread around a high-speed logic board is such good value for decoupling. The Cs add, the ESRs divide down and the inductances divide down too. [At high speed it's a bit more complicated because you also have to start thinking about things like the rate at which changes propagate across the board - not all the capacitors will be able to participate equally.] If you're interested in this kind of thing, read Johnson and Graham's High-Speed Signal Propagation - it's very good. They're academics who I can recognise as being engineers, if you know what I mean, which is much rarer than you might suppose.

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  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 over 8 years ago in reply to jc2048

    If you want to try out the 'equal potential' method, have a go at this.

     

    If the resistors in the cube are all 6 ohms, what is the resistance between A and B? (You should be able to do it in your head.)

     

    image

     

    I've just noticed that all of yesterday's Champions have turned into today's Top Members. That's a pity - I won't now be able to use the jokes about horses

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_the_Wonder_Horse

     

    and breakfasts

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakfast_of_Champions

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  • mcb1
    0 mcb1 over 8 years ago in reply to jc2048

    That's positively evil.

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  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 over 8 years ago in reply to mcb1

    Thank you, perhaps I'll make a Minion yet.

     

    It's a very old puzzle - I think I first saw it back in the 1970s.

     

    I'm serious about being able to do it in your head, but you have to think about it in the right way. Don't try and solve it by equations, consider the voltages at the nodes if you put a potential across A-B and how they relate to each other given the symmetries involved, then it's just a little simple arithmetic.

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  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 over 8 years ago in reply to mcb1

    Thank you, perhaps I'll make a Minion yet.

     

    It's a very old puzzle - I think I first saw it back in the 1970s.

     

    I'm serious about being able to do it in your head, but you have to think about it in the right way. Don't try and solve it by equations, consider the voltages at the nodes if you put a potential across A-B and how they relate to each other given the symmetries involved, then it's just a little simple arithmetic.

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