Boycott Element14 posts - for the rest of September

Warren Brayshaw schrieb:

Element14 created problems for the community of forum users of

news.cadsoft.de which they don't appear to have the desire to fix so I

suggest a boycott until

the end of September, or longer if need be, for any assistance requests

logged from there.

Well, while the posts from there are increasingly annoying, I don't

think a boycott is the right reaction.

That would leave Cadsoft staff  and Element14 volunteers to answer all

queries from the many beginners that that site is attracting.

I assume that the obvious correlation between dumb newbie questions and

element-14 posters is a result of the new cadsoft website, which shows

the element-14 forums as the first support address:

<http://www.cadsoft.de/forums/>

[IMHO, the order should better be 1. newsgroups, 2. eaglecentral.ca, 3.

element-14 (may be omitted).]

As I see it there are two issues needing correction

(1) Attachments that work both directions

(2) Filter out the emoticon ASCII (known as spam in some circles) prior to

sending to the NNTP

Lately, I contacted CadSoft/Farnell on this issue - let's see if

something happens.

The methods to use to spot which messages to boycott is varied.

Much of the time  I get suspicious due to the nature of the question.

For news readers, I set  rules that colour  the message headers to indicate

where they have came from. (abilities vary with readers)

EagleCentral messages standout as they most often included the

www.eaglecentral signature.

Browsing at EagleCentral you can spot  the sender as 'Element14 User' for

those Element14 users that did not provide a contact email. For those that

did they have a name  so these are hard to determine.

For filtering element-14 posts, simply look for "premierfarnell" in the

"Path" header - if you really want to.

However, there also are "normal" questions and answers posted from

there, so it's not a good idea to filter them all.

...and its easy. All you have to do is 'nothing' for a month and something

good could come out of it.

It's always your choice to answer - or not. I also do not reply to

/every/ post I could have an answer for (or for which I'd need more

details to be able to provide an answer).

Tilmann

Tilmann Reh wrote:

Well, while the posts from there are increasingly annoying, I don't

think a boycott is the right reaction..................

>............. Lately, I contacted CadSoft/Farnell on this issue - let's see

if

something happens..............

Thanks for putting the effort into this doing that.

I have done that previously for Element14 and new website issues. Nothing

changed except that an attachment did get through from Element14 the other

day. Yet to see another.

........I assume that the obvious correlation between dumb newbie

questions

and element-14 posters is a result of the new cadsoft website, which

shows the element-14 forums as the first support address:

<http://www.cadsoft.de/forums/>

[IMHO, the order should better be 1. newsgroups, 2. eaglecentral.ca,

3. element-14 (may be omitted).]

The order is determined for commercial reasons.

For all its ease and speed of use, a newsreader is not the tool for surfing

the web looking for help. You get a newsreader once you decide to settle in

with a forum.

It's understandable for Farnell to modernise the Eagle brand, hence the new

look website.(pity it's so slow)

The Element14 knode is obviously  netting potential customers of a new

generation.

I suspect upper management may want the newsgroup disbanded as it is not

generally percieved as a modern tool and denies them the ability to

advertise in that space.

However, there also are "normal" questions and answers posted from

there, so it's not a good idea to filter them all.

I disagree. Filtering them all is the only way to get the point across. It's

the equivalent of broadcasting to all Element14 posters that they should

now, instead, send email requests for assistance directly to Cadsoft  who

would be very pleased to help them. Element14 would be fixed fairly quickly

if that happened, I suspect.

It's always your choice to answer - or not....................

Agreed. I will find it hard not to assist when the requester has done their

homework and requesting properly.

There is plenty to entertain us coming in via the newsgroup and

EagleCentral.

Fingers crossed that the simple fixes are attended to.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

Tilmann Reh wrote:

Well, while the posts from there are increasingly annoying, I don't

think a boycott is the right reaction..................

>............. Lately, I contacted CadSoft/Farnell on this issue - let's see

if

something happens..............

Thanks for putting the effort into this doing that.

I have done that previously for Element14 and new website issues. Nothing

changed except that an attachment did get through from Element14 the other

day. Yet to see another.

........I assume that the obvious correlation between dumb newbie

questions

and element-14 posters is a result of the new cadsoft website, which

shows the element-14 forums as the first support address:

<http://www.cadsoft.de/forums/>

[IMHO, the order should better be 1. newsgroups, 2. eaglecentral.ca,

3. element-14 (may be omitted).]

The order is determined for commercial reasons.

For all its ease and speed of use, a newsreader is not the tool for surfing

the web looking for help. You get a newsreader once you decide to settle in

with a forum.

It's understandable for Farnell to modernise the Eagle brand, hence the new

look website.(pity it's so slow)

The Element14 knode is obviously  netting potential customers of a new

generation.

I suspect upper management may want the newsgroup disbanded as it is not

generally percieved as a modern tool and denies them the ability to

advertise in that space.

However, there also are "normal" questions and answers posted from

there, so it's not a good idea to filter them all.

I disagree. Filtering them all is the only way to get the point across. It's

the equivalent of broadcasting to all Element14 posters that they should

now, instead, send email requests for assistance directly to Cadsoft  who

would be very pleased to help them. Element14 would be fixed fairly quickly

if that happened, I suspect.

It's always your choice to answer - or not....................

Agreed. I will find it hard not to assist when the requester has done their

homework and requesting properly.

There is plenty to entertain us coming in via the newsgroup and

EagleCentral.

Fingers crossed that the simple fixes are attended to.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

Tilmann Reh wrote:

>I assume that the obvious correlation between dumb newbie questions and

>element-14 posters is a result of the new cadsoft website, which shows

>the element-14 forums as the first support address:

><http://www.cadsoft.de/forums/>

>[IMHO, the order should better be 1. newsgroups, 2. eaglecentral.ca, 3.

>element-14 (may be omitted).]

I agree.

OTOH I can understand that Farnell prefers their own site. But since

it's badly broken, they need to make a better gateway, anyway!

Oliver

--

Oliver Betz, Munich

despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:

Thank you for your feedback here, there is also a community area Feedback and Support where you can post about issues with the element14 side of things.

We want to ensure that Cadsoft users are looked after as best as possible.  We would also love to have all the experienced cadsoft users taking part in discussions on element14 about their designs and helping the community members out, as well as discussing your questions with the Cadsoft product.

There is a wealth of information on the element14 community, and access to thousands of other experienced designers and our suppliers which we would hope is also beneficial to Cadsoft users.

However, none of the above will happen if we don't keep our users happy!

So we'd like to invite some more feedback.  If you could use the feedback area, or email communitymanager@element14.com then I can respond directly if necessary.

I'd like to hear how you use the newsgroups/forums/websites, and what  are your specific issues. Do you have any suggestions? i.e should we  create a 'beginners' newsgroup, or maybe have a FAQ section, and   provide some rules on posting.

From your comments I understand the issues are:

1 - New users posting 'dumb' questions to innapropriate forum.

2 - Attachments not always being transferred - is this from newsgroup to the element14 site, or in the other direction, or both?

3 - Element14 posts all appearing on the site as the same user name.

4 - Speed of Cadsoft website.

As above, I think we can alleviate the problem from new users by providing a better initial support area on the website with a FAQ etc. Again, as our experienced users, you are best placed to help our  beginners, so please let us know the types of question/problems that we  should be populating a FAQ with.

I can confirm that we are looking into why the attachments are not being transferred across, as this is something that should have been fixed already.

We can investigate getting the correct username passed with each new post.

We have the support team investigating the speed of the new website and this should be fixed shortly.

On another point, it was not a management decision to try and move away from newsgroups.  As experienced developers both myself and all my colleagues were really surprised that anyone was still using the newsgroup system so it was more a technical decision in order to get the discussions indexed on the internet.

I hope this goes some way to assure you that we do take these issues seriously.  We obviously want to keep our existing users happy, and need to provide the best possible support for new users.

So please if you do have specific problems that you think are related to the element14 community website, or ideas for improvement please use the feedback & Support section (http://www.element14.com/community/community/support), or email communitymanager@element14.com

Regards,

Martin

Op Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:06:31 +0200 schreef martinuser 

<communitymanager@premierfarnell.com>:

Hello Martin,

From your comments I understand the issues are:

 

1 - New users posting 'dumb' questions to innapropriate forum.

2 - Attachments not always being transferred - is this from newsgroup to 

the element14 site, or in the other direction, or both?

3 - Element14 posts all appearing on the site as the same user name.

4 - Speed of Cadsoft website.

 

>

as for item 3: everyone posting from Element14 has a 'From:' header like 

this:  "From: "User Name" <communitymanager@premierfarnell.com>" The 

username is substituted for the poster's name, the return e-mail is always 

the same.

Add to that the annoying emoticons coming through as text: 

. 

Please remove these before forwarding the message to the newsgroup.

We can investigate getting the correct username passed with each new 

post.

As stated above, it is not only the username, but the 'From:' header that 

needs to be corrected.

 

On another point, it was not a management decision to try and move away 

from newsgroups.  As experienced developers both myself and all my 

colleagues were really surprised that anyone was still using the 

newsgroup system so it was more a technical decision in order to get the 

discussions indexed on the internet.

Really? surprised that anyone is still using the newsgroups? As for 

myself, I'm not a frequent poster on the Eagle newsgroups but I do read 

the relevant groups on a daily basis ever since I started using Eagle 

(4.0; about 10 years ago). Newsgroups are so much quicker than webforums 

when browsing messages. Everything is 'delivered' in a familiar interface 

on my computer, no login, no navigation, no advertising (..). I would 

really hate it, if beeing forced to use a website for this. The last 

time a manufacturer removed newsgroup access for a program I use 

(Autodesk's AutoSketch), I really never bothered to check in again. It's 

just to much work.

Richard

"martinuser" <communitymanager@premierfarnell.com> wrote in message

news:288034563.1871316509622009.JavaMail.jive@flmspu-

So we'd like to invite some more feedback. If you could use the feedback

area, or email communitymanager@element14.com

(mailto:communitymanager@element14.com) then I can respond directly if

necessary.

Why not just use this thread? Thats how us old newsusers like it. One simple

entry.

I'd like to hear how you use the newsgroups/forums/websites, and what are

your specific issues. Do you have any suggestions? i.e should we create a

'beginners' newsgroup, or maybe have a FAQ section, and provide some rules

on posting.

From your comments I understand the issues are:

1 - New users posting 'dumb' questions to innapropriate forum.

That happens all the time. I think the new one is the quantity has gone up,

maybe because Farnell grabs new users at higher rate. I think we all should

live with it. You don't have to anwer noob questions if you don't want to.

2 - Attachments not always being transferred - is this from newsgroup to

the element14 site, or in the other direction, or both?

I have suggested before to always post links to attachments. It would have

to be a link where we don't have to log in and do other time consuming

things to get to it. I have on some occations logged in to element14 to find

it, but usually the workload overwins the curiosity.

3 - Element14 posts all appearing on the site as the same user name.

I accidentially hit reply (personal) instead of reply group to a element14

user and got a reply from you that I should go to the forum to seek

answers.. I did not even notice what his replyto address was before it was

too late. I think element14 lacks the experience of how NNTP servers/readers

work. You need to get an experienced user to design the interface between

NNTP and yours.

4 - Speed of Cadsoft website.

I rarely use the website, neither cadsoft or element14 (however, I do use

farnell to browse component availability). If I do, its to see if someone

made a component already in the download section. Im still using IE8 (and is

pleased with it) and I don't really get into much problems with it.

As above, I think we can alleviate the problem from new users by providing

a better initial support area on the website with a FAQ etc. Again, as our

experienced users, you are best placed to help our beginners, so please

let us know the types of question/problems that we should be populating a

FAQ with.

I think Casoft (and TONS of other sw tool programmers) could learn from

computer games here. Why not make a "follow me intro level" built in, where

starter users get some tasks to do interactively. Its surely more fun and

efficient training than reading a 300 page manual, or even watching a one

way tutorial where you have to stop it, switch window, try and maybe rewind

and fumble around to find where the relevant stuff started. I only use

manuals for looking up specific problems, not as a starter. When you open a

new toy, only some originals wants to read the manual before playing.

"martinuser" <communitymanager@premierfarnell.com> wrote in message

news:288034563.1871316509622009.JavaMail.jive@flmspu-

So we'd like to invite some more feedback. If you could use the feedback

area, or email communitymanager@element14.com

(mailto:communitymanager@element14.com) then I can respond directly if

necessary.

Why not just use this thread? Thats how us old newsusers like it. One simple

entry.

I'd like to hear how you use the newsgroups/forums/websites, and what are

your specific issues. Do you have any suggestions? i.e should we create a

'beginners' newsgroup, or maybe have a FAQ section, and provide some rules

on posting.

From your comments I understand the issues are:

1 - New users posting 'dumb' questions to innapropriate forum.

That happens all the time. I think the new one is the quantity has gone up,

maybe because Farnell grabs new users at higher rate. I think we all should

live with it. You don't have to anwer noob questions if you don't want to.

2 - Attachments not always being transferred - is this from newsgroup to

the element14 site, or in the other direction, or both?

I have suggested before to always post links to attachments. It would have

to be a link where we don't have to log in and do other time consuming

things to get to it. I have on some occations logged in to element14 to find

it, but usually the workload overwins the curiosity.

3 - Element14 posts all appearing on the site as the same user name.

I accidentially hit reply (personal) instead of reply group to a element14

user and got a reply from you that I should go to the forum to seek

answers.. I did not even notice what his replyto address was before it was

too late. I think element14 lacks the experience of how NNTP servers/readers

work. You need to get an experienced user to design the interface between

NNTP and yours.

4 - Speed of Cadsoft website.

I rarely use the website, neither cadsoft or element14 (however, I do use

farnell to browse component availability). If I do, its to see if someone

made a component already in the download section. Im still using IE8 (and is

pleased with it) and I don't really get into much problems with it.

As above, I think we can alleviate the problem from new users by providing

a better initial support area on the website with a FAQ etc. Again, as our

experienced users, you are best placed to help our beginners, so please

let us know the types of question/problems that we should be populating a

FAQ with.

I think Casoft (and TONS of other sw tool programmers) could learn from

computer games here. Why not make a "follow me intro level" built in, where

starter users get some tasks to do interactively. Its surely more fun and

efficient training than reading a 300 page manual, or even watching a one

way tutorial where you have to stop it, switch window, try and maybe rewind

and fumble around to find where the relevant stuff started. I only use

manuals for looking up specific problems, not as a starter. When you open a

new toy, only some originals wants to read the manual before playing.