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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) EAGLE License Recommendat ion
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Related

EAGLE License Recommendat ion

autodeskguest
autodeskguest over 8 years ago

Hello Autodesk (specifically Matt),

 

In your last post about the path forward for EAGLE Make licenses, you

maintain that a "Paid" license (i.e. one that you are paying a subscription

for) will only function for 14 days without an internet connection.

 

I think that Autodesk has underestimated how much of an issue this will be,

especially for professional design houses.  These design houses are

important as they support, and encourage, EAGLE to be used in a

professional manner.  The recommendation from a design house to new

companies/clients go a long way to creating new customers for EAGLE (I know

Stratford Digital has influenced many companies to get an EAGLE license

because that is what we recommended, Olin has stated the same for his

company).

 

I think the main issue is that we professionals need our current version of

EAGLE to run forever.  But I think there is a path forward with a small

tweak.  I would love it if Matt could respond to this suggestion:

 

EAGLE License Recommendation

 

No one has an issue with requiring the internet on installation or

upgrading of EAGLE.  If a subscription is valid then either of these is

allowed.  If the subscription is not valid or can't be verified (i.e. no

internet connection) then neither is allowed BUT the software continues to

work indefinitely as it did at the time of the last call home to Autodesk

license server.

 

This means there is still a reason to pay subscription cost:

active support access to new features with new versions

 

This allows for the support that professionals will need to be able to

prove can be provided decades down the road (it happens all the time). It

allows me to create a virtual machine with a specific version of EAGLE on

it and know that in the future that software will work as it did during the

initial project development.  It also allows for use in walled-off security

environments.

 

We also need a method (officially supported) of having multiple versions of

EAGLE on the same computer at the same time with the ability to configure

each install to update or not automatically.  This is absolutely required

as some clients, for various reasons, specify specific versions of EAGLE to

be used.

 

This also puts a burden on Autodesk to make sure that their updates are

significant enough to warrant people continuing subscriptions.  That is a

good thing and will give users some confidence that a subscription is worth

it.  The value of any change since v6.6 is pretty limited, hierarchical

design is a good idea but not fully implemented.  And we're still waiting

on completion of the differential pair routing from v6.  It seems the main

additions since v6.6 is two, unasked for and highly restrictive licensing

changes.  So there isn't a lot of trust in the EAGLE community right now.

Autodesk has said good things but little has been delivered yet.

 

I think the above is a good compromise.  If Matt doesn't agree then please

provide your suggestion as how I am going to be guaranteed to be able to

support projects a decade in the future.  For this argument, "trusting

Autodesk will allow it" will not be accepted as an allowable answer.  It

may be 100% true today but when you leave to retire in the Bahamas or the

entire team is sold off to another global corp the policy can instantly

change (see last 6 months).

 

Cheers,

 

James

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

http://www.stratforddigital.ca

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

 

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago +1
    James Morrison wrote on Mon, 23 January 2017 13:24 No one has an issue with requiring the internet on installation or upgrading of EAGLE. Almost. I have one customer where I run Eagle on a computer in…
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 8 years ago +1
    Hi James, et. Al -- I've sent a number of variations of this email over the last few days, so let me share it and solicit people's feedback. This is some of what we're doing to make this model a bit more…
  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to Former Member +1
    Hi Matt, This can not be, after expiring the license period that the software will falling down to a free version. The free version is a toy for children, for playing with this at school. I have a small…
  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to Former Member

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:55:00 -0800, Matt Berggren

    <technolomaniac@gmail.com> wrote:

     

     

    Firstly, from the outset we knew we've wanted to integrate EAGLE's

    capabilities with MCAD, MFG, Cutting (CAM), etc to provide something far in

    excess of any 'ECAD<>MCAD' solution on the market. After all, this is a

    deep part of Autodesk's history and the value we bring to the table, and

    the company has been centered around 3D CAD, even when done in 2D (for

    example Autocad) for 25+ years. Thus, we have been looking long and hard at

    what it takes to build 'whole products' and this acquisition of an

    electronics solution marks just the beginning of a process that'll take us

    in some wild directions. That being said, we are working on this and will

    continue, hybridizing EAGLE's schematic and PCB capabilities with an MCAD +

    MFG workflow that we hope will prove second-to-none.

     

    Matt,

     

    Has it occurred to you that there is a significant percentage of the

    Eagle user base that simply doesn't want all that complexity and cost?

     

    I suspect I'm close to typical.  I run a 4 person (variable number of

    contractors too) manufacturing company that manufactures induction

    heaters.  We introduced our first product, the Roy induction heater in

    2009 and that's when we bought Eagle.  I've kept it up to date until

    now.

     

    I do all the design work except for some mechanical work that I hire a

    contractor for.  Our needs are minimal and for that we use QCAD.  It's

    closed source but it runs on Linux and its native file format is DXF.

     

    To me there seems to be an obvious solution to this problem.  Keep

    Eagle as a stand-alone product just like it was and at the same time

    incorporate it into you complex and expensive product.  Backfit

    stand-alone Eagle with applicable significant new features as you

    develop them for the integrated product.

     

    In this manner you can service both the small user who doesn't want

    and/or can't afford the complexity of your integrated product and you

    can service your traditional customer base with the integrated

    product.

     

    I know that AutoDesk has gotten so large that it doesn't have to give

    a sh*t about what us small customers want.  We small companies can't

    be that way.  If a customer will pay the price, I will incorporate a

    special feature into even an old board, spin a few and modify the

    firmware accordingly.

     

    The design files are under source code control so I can go back and

    fetch the design files with little effort.  I keep every version of

    Eagle on our machines so it's simply a matter of firing it up and

    making the mods.

     

    To protect against old versions not running on an upgraded OS, I have

    a large gun safe in the building's basement.  Inside are laptops

    loaded with the environment it takes to run the old versions.  Thus if

    Canonical makes changes to Ubuntu that break old versions, I can still

    use the laptop to make the changes.

     

    Your current scheme of renting new versions breaks this method of

    operation.  Thus if you continue on your current path, I much change

    packages.  KiCAD is my choice.

     

    Understand that I don't WANT to change.  I'd like to continue in my

    current familiar work environment.  But you're currently forcing my

    hand.

     

    Why don't you give my proposal consideration and then adopt it?  That

    way everyone would be happy.

     

    John

    John DeArmond

    http://www.neon-john.com

    http://www.tnduction.com

    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN

    See website for email address

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 01:41:04 +0000, James Morrison

    <james@eaglecentral.ca> wrote:

     

    New Proposal

     

    +1

     

    John

    John DeArmond

    http://www.neon-john.com

    http://www.tnduction.com

    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN

    See website for email address

     

     

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  • rbeaubien
    rbeaubien over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt,  This pricing does not allow for the hobbyist to continue working with Eagle.  I purchased the $169 option that allowed for 6 layers and 100x160mm boards and I designed within that limitation.  All my boards are 4 layer.  Now to get the same functionality is going to cost me $250 the first year and god know after that.  I do this for fun and don't make any money off it.  I would have no problem with a $250/subscription (every year) that also included benefits like an online parts library, but even that is a stretch, and at $500+ year, I simply can't afford it. 

     

    Why would you change the limitations of your enthusiast versions?

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to rbeaubien

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

    Matt,  This pricing does not allow for the hobbyist to continue

    working with Eagle.  I purchased the $169 option that allowed for 6

    layers and 100x160mm boards and I designed within that limitation.  All

    my boards are 4 layer.  Now to get the same functionality is going to

    cost me $250 the first year and god know after that.

     

     

    Hi Robert, You don't need the premium subscription for 4 layer boards, they

    are upping the standard limit to 4 layers which I believe will be available

    in the next v8.0.1 release available any day now.

     

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

      I do this for fun and don't make any money off it.  I would have no

    problem with a $250/subscription (every year) that also included benefits

    like an online parts library, but even that is a stretch, and at $500+

    year, I simply can't afford it.

     

     

    Online parts library... what a horrible idea.... EAGLE already comes with a

    large part library that you can use if you absolutely must. Really though,

    everybody should just create their own clean library which they fully check

    themselves as you cannot just blindly use libraries created by others

    without thoroughly checking them first anyway. I wouldn't want Autodesk

    wasting effort creating an online parts library which is essentially of no

    real value as they should be putting their resources into useful things

    like adding more high end routing features etc.

     

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

    Why would you change the limitations of your enthusiast versions?

     

    There isn't an enthusiast subscription version at the moment. Both the

    subscription versions are fully commercial, it's just the freeware one

    which is non-commercial.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

     

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachael,

     

    Yes this was also my objection, when I spoke here in this forum about standards.

    Eagle v8 licensing... (look for page 10, in the middle of the page)

    (first i asked for Matt, Jorge answered me. Then we talked about the standards.)

    Then Jorge told me that AutoDesk can make the standard PCB 160 cm² with up to 4 layers.

     

    But! - how can I (μ) PGA or (μ) BGA? You need more than 4 layers.
    Well, this is absolutely unreal to think that "standard" is 4 levels!


    -> This "standard" was a standard in the 1990s, when we started the electronic work.
    The standard in 1985 I worked with, was 99 layers with PCAD (v 5) - on the MSDOS platform.
    Eagle did not really exist at this time. In the 90s, Eagle entered the hobby scene.

     

    I do not know - do you know Elektor? This was an "absolute must" in the electronics hobby in Europe.
    My first Elektor was 11/1976 - the the Layouter worked by hand with Letraset, then the layout was copied onto a thermal transfer foil.
    In the 90s to 2k's Elektor used ULTIBOARD, I used PCAD, PROTEL, OrCAD, or by hand as a training.
    Then the 2k's PCAD was migrated to Altium, the price was astronomical. So I went to Cadsoft. (v5.12)
    Elektor is now using Altium. (Why I told Elektor, because that was the beginning for most electronics engineers, they went from hobby to pro.)

    Well, what is standard ?? !! - Standard is what the market needs by giving time -> today 2017 and future.

     

    No, my opinion, standard for Eagle must have a full number of layers as minimum, and 1 or 2 m² dimension, not 160 cm².
    All Others is for hobby. It is a step back when you stay in a place forever.
    With 160 cm² I can not create a 19" PCB with 6U - 160x233mm.
    What is standard? - 19" or mini-PCB mounted in a brake of a car?

    What is standard? - a space ship?
    Standard was for Eagle 160x100 with 6 layers (V6).

    Now it is 160x100 with 2 layers, then "comes back" 4 layers, as mentioned above.
    Well, this is an aggressive step back! The customers are cheated, pulled over the table.

    Customers are confused with "news". In a year, no one knows any more.
    The young engineers do not know how we, the old ones, fought at that time.
    Advertising on the web is designed to be confusing.

    Has super beautiful huge pictures, but extremely little meaning.

     

    AutoDesk does not matter, it says: "we also provide the software for the authorities and large companies." (See a message from Matt with this sentence).

    For us it is not matter, we are dependent and have to live on both sides to get slaps (supplier side and the customer side).

    Elektor has always advertised Eagle in the magazines.

    So that in the beginning 2000? ..2005 Eagle became more popular also in the industry.

    The small contractors and private individuals reached that Eagle was also accepted by the PCB manufacturers.

    Although Eagle has not progressed in the past 10 years, especially in the last 3 years, it is used by PCB manufacturers.

     

    This will probably be the focus for AutoDesk.

    Just how many PCB manufacturers are there? - much less than developer offices.

    And these developers do not want to be ripped off.

     

    Gerald

    ---

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