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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Support (English) Import/export
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Related

Import/export

Former Member
Former Member over 15 years ago

CadSoft: Please excuse this lengthy posting, but the description of the

things below IS a bit complicated to describe for me...

 

The following problem arises regularly: You just created a wonderful

circuit, extremely clever and magnificently layouted, and you just need

eight channels thereof. Official solutions in EAGLE use switching off

F/B annotation, copying schematic and board separately and hoping and

praying that after switching the F/B annotation on again everything is

working. This REGULARLY fails (it only worked once in my lifetime for me).

 

I heard rumours that in one of the next EAGLE versions an import/export

functionality will be implemented, which is at least as wonderful as

being able to connect a pin to more than one pad (pretty, pretty, please

again).

 

Anyway, as a suggestion, I would like to draw CadSoft's attention to my

posting from 2010-05-26 in eagle.userchat.ger, where I attached a ULP

system for doing import/export. Forget about the 'export' ULP here -

CadSoft would of course never need to program anything like that,

because they KNOW their own data structures and do not have to create

intermediate files.

 

When importing, though, it would be spiffing if the new import command

would contain the following options of above mentioned ULP:

  1. In order to create multi-channel layouts, the imported circuit

     (schematic and board) should be placed somewhere inconspicious,

     e.g., NEXT or BELOW the already used area (I have only implemented

     NEXT due to personal laziness).

  2. In order to save and reuse GENERAL circuits, the imported circuit

     (schematic and board) should be placed at EXACTLY the position of

     the imported original. With this function, we easily create new

     circuits from previously saved 'building blocks': a) Import the

     outline of the 6U 19" board, b) import the -5V/-15V power supply

     and place it at EXACTLY the predefined position, so that the

     regulators can be directly screwed into the case-mounted heat sink,

     c) import the 'power LED' circuit that lights the LED only if all

     four supplies are present, etc.

     Sometimes, those building block originals do not make too much

     sense seen alone (e.g., the power supply copper lines just

     end somewhere, but this 'somewhere' is exactly the correct

     position for the 32-pin connector that comes together with the

     board outline), but it all fits together.

  3. A feature I could only implement in rudiments is the connection

     of NETS: These should SOMETIMES be automatically renamed, but

     sometimes NOT! For example, in multi-channel layouts, quite often

     ALL nets of the imported circuit should be renamed but NOT the

     power supply lines or some common 'clock' signal etc. In my

     ULP, lacking the necessary dialog object, one can set the

     distinction to 'rename only nets that contain a dollar character',

     which properly works with common power supplies (they are

     connected) and nets automatically named by EAGLE (the will be

     renamed), but obviously FAILS for signals like 'output1' (the

     outputs of all channels will be connected).

     Since only the USER knows which signals SHOULD be renamed and

     which shouldn't, a checkboxed list could be shown, which contains

     ALL nets of the imported circuit for the user to decide which

     ones should be connected (perhaps with some short-circuit

     buttons like 'separate all', 'separate nets with dollars',

     'connect all').

  4. This may sound a bit complicated, but the only thing really

     complex here is that one doesn't know what the USER really

     wants and therefore should give him the freedom to choose.

  5. Since such an import saves LOTS of time and, due to the

     checkboxed list, is unique to each imported circuit, I would

     not find it necessary to implement all functionality as

     text command (that would be too confusing, anyway):

     'import ' just opens the corresponding dialog box and

     the user selects the rest.

  6. Since you are CadSoft and not me, all strange restrictions

     of my home-made ULP would not apply, of course. For MUCH better

     streamlining...

 

Thanks for reading through all of this stuff - perhaps you even find

some of the above useful...

 

Andreas Weidner

 

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  • kcadsoft
    kcadsoft over 15 years ago

    On 07/12/10 22:24, Andreas Weidner wrote:

     

     

    What we are aiming at here is the following:

     

    - We extend the PASTE command to accept a board file name ("paste from file").

     

    - The user places the board file (block) in the currently edited board file.

     

    - The related schematic sheets are automatically appended to new sheets

      in the edited schematic. If necessary, they can be moved to existing

      sheets later through GROUP/MOVE.

     

    - Nets are handled just as the PASTE command does it: they keep their

      name if one of their segments has a label or is connected to a supply pin.

     

    Klaus Schmidinger

    --

    _______________________________________________________________

     

    Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

    CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

    Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

    D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

    _______________________________________________________________

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to kcadsoft

    Am 13.07.2010 14:23, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:

    - The user places the board file (block) in the currently edited board file.

     

    This would help us only in about 20% of all cases: The main usage of our

    export/import thingy here are predefined layouts with EXACTLY defined

    board position. It would be a pity if this were not possible (which is

    the main reason why I mentioned it)...

     

    - The related schematic sheets are automatically appended to new sheets

       in the edited schematic. If necessary, they can be moved to existing

       sheets later through GROUP/MOVE.

     

    This would also not make it possible to save predefined building blocks

    on disk and get an automatic connection (or at least it would make it

    rather complicated) - too bad...

     

    - Nets are handled just as the PASTE command does it: they keep their

       name if one of their segments has a label or is connected to a supply pin.

     

    This would also be quite suboptimal for, as Morten Leikvoll already

    stated, circuits with more than one channel of separate supplies.

     

    All in all, the mentioned automatisms of your approach are FAR too

    restrictive for our convenience here, so by all probability we would

    never ever use this functionality, but would need to keep my

    export/import ULP (and its rather severe limitations - but those

    limitations are not as severe as in your approach, and at least one can

    take a LOOK at what will be connected and what not, so one can easily

    patch everything later).

     

    Having automatisms IS useful sometimes, but with SO many different users

    needing different things and so many possible circuits I would opt for

    NO automatisms, but a dialog box where the user can decide and select

    things.

     

    It always seemed to me that CadSoft sort of disliked dialog boxes, but

    for complex things, they are SOMETIMES really useful (like the otherwise

    unclear DRC settings)...

     

    Andreas Weidner

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Andreas Weidner wrote on Tue, 13 July 2010 12:16

    It always seemed to me that CadSoft sort of disliked dialog boxes,

     

    Yes, and I'm glad they do.  One of the really great things about Eagle is

    that everything is a command, which means it can be scripted, performed by

    a ULP, etc.  Put dialog boxes around some things if you wish, as long as

    the underlying direct command mechanism is still available and these dialog

    boxes don't pop up in my face when I'm trying to get something done.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Am 13.07.2010 18:47, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >> It always seemed to me that CadSoft sort of disliked dialog boxes,

    >

    Yes, and I'm glad they do.

     

    I wholeheartedly agree FOR SIMPLE THINGS. I just NEVER click on any

    menu, and I ALWAYS throw away the graphical buttons, because I LOVE my

    command line (but: from about 20 users in our institute, only TWO

    regularly use the command line, no matter how often I tell the others

    that it's MUCH quicker than anything else).

     

    I do NOT agree for COMPLEX things: HAVING to use the command line for

    pin/pad connects (as was usual in version 2) was a PAIN, and errors were

    QUITE common. The simple dialog introduced somewhere around version 3

    was a DEFINITE improvement. I would also not like to change all millions

    of DRC settings without the nice dialog that tells me what is what.

     

    Importing a whole project or duplicating a channel has as many degrees

    of freedom as there are nets available. Doing this with a rigid

    automatism as suggested by CadSoft is not flexible enough in my opinion.

    Doing this without ANY dialog is quite unmanageable, because nobody is

    genius enough to know ALL nets available in the imported circuit. Well,

    of course there MIGHT be some geniuses around, but at least I am not one

    of them.

     

    Therefore, for COMPLEX things with many degrees of freedom a nice dialog

    can make things MUCH easier for anybody below the status of genius. A

    dialog that lets you SEE and SELECT which nets of an imported circuit

    will be connected would be VERY useful.

     

    Note: Not ALL dialogs are evil! A LOT of programs seriously overdo it

    with useless dialogs, but CadSoft has never fallen into this bad habit

    so far. They won't program useless dialogs, and I never asked for

    useless dialogs.

     

    Andreas Weidner

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to Former Member

    On 7/13/2010 2:06 PM, Andreas Weidner wrote:

    Am 13.07.2010 18:47, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >>> It always seemed to me that CadSoft sort of disliked dialog boxes,

    >>

    >> Yes, and I'm glad they do.

    >

    I wholeheartedly agree FOR SIMPLE THINGS. I just NEVER click on any

    menu, and I ALWAYS throw away the graphical buttons, because I LOVE my

    command line (but: from about 20 users in our institute, only TWO

    regularly use the command line, no matter how often I tell the others

    that it's MUCH quicker than anything else).

    >

    I do NOT agree for COMPLEX things: HAVING to use the command line for

    pin/pad connects (as was usual in version 2) was a PAIN, and errors were

    QUITE common. The simple dialog introduced somewhere around version 3

    was a DEFINITE improvement. I would also not like to change all millions

    of DRC settings without the nice dialog that tells me what is what.

    >

    Importing a whole project or duplicating a channel has as many degrees

    of freedom as there are nets available. Doing this with a rigid

    automatism as suggested by CadSoft is not flexible enough in my opinion.

    Doing this without ANY dialog is quite unmanageable, because nobody is

    genius enough to know ALL nets available in the imported circuit. Well,

    of course there MIGHT be some geniuses around, but at least I am not one

    of them.

    >

    Therefore, for COMPLEX things with many degrees of freedom a nice dialog

    can make things MUCH easier for anybody below the status of genius. A

    dialog that lets you SEE and SELECT which nets of an imported circuit

    will be connected would be VERY useful.

    >

    Note: Not ALL dialogs are evil! A LOT of programs seriously overdo it

    with useless dialogs, but CadSoft has never fallen into this bad habit

    so far. They won't program useless dialogs, and I never asked for

    useless dialogs.

    >

    Andreas Weidner

    "Full Ack" on dialogs and duplicating.

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to Former Member

    "Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote in message

    news:i1i5bb$ptf$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    Yes, and I'm glad they do.  One of the really great things about Eagle is

    that everything is a command, which means it can be scripted, performed by

    a ULP, etc.  Put dialog boxes around some things if you wish, as long as

    the underlying direct command mechanism is still available and these

    dialog

    boxes don't pop up in my face when I'm trying to get something done.

     

    Having said that, there is nothing in the way to make a complex dialog boxes

    compatible with a command syntax.

    Similar to what I've suggested on existing popup boxes (like when connecting

    nets in a script) you can have endless arguments to a command specifying

    what you want to do.

    For a copy and paste command you could just add parameters to the paste

    like:

     

    paste to (x y) keep 'GND' '12v' rename '5v' '+2v5';

     

    To keep GND and +12v to the global net, and rename the copied +5v net to

    +2v5 on the pasted one. Or the simple version:

     

    paste to (x y);

    to ask for a popup window specifying what nets you want kept.

     

    GUI and commands CAN live side by side. You just need to take care of

    supporting handling all the GUI parameters in the command line.

     

     

     

     

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 15 years ago in reply to Former Member

    "Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote in message

    news:i1i5bb$ptf$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    Yes, and I'm glad they do.  One of the really great things about Eagle is

    that everything is a command, which means it can be scripted, performed by

    a ULP, etc.  Put dialog boxes around some things if you wish, as long as

    the underlying direct command mechanism is still available and these

    dialog

    boxes don't pop up in my face when I'm trying to get something done.

     

    Having said that, there is nothing in the way to make a complex dialog boxes

    compatible with a command syntax.

    Similar to what I've suggested on existing popup boxes (like when connecting

    nets in a script) you can have endless arguments to a command specifying

    what you want to do.

    For a copy and paste command you could just add parameters to the paste

    like:

     

    paste to (x y) keep 'GND' '12v' rename '5v' '+2v5';

     

    To keep GND and +12v to the global net, and rename the copied +5v net to

    +2v5 on the pasted one. Or the simple version:

     

    paste to (x y);

    to ask for a popup window specifying what nets you want kept.

     

    GUI and commands CAN live side by side. You just need to take care of

    supporting handling all the GUI parameters in the command line.

     

     

     

     

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