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EAGLE User Support (English) Negative printing support
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Negative printing support

Former Member
Former Member over 14 years ago

Hi, guys!

I've been using EAGLE since 4.16 version as a hobbyist and bought

non-profit license some time ago. Making PCBs with EAGLE and "laser printer

and iron" is just perfect and there are very few things that can be added

in there. But when I decided to "upgrade" to photoresist method I faced a

strong problem. Here (in Russia) it's much easy to get negative photoresist

since it's more popular among PCB manufactures. And getting a negative

template from EAGLE became an endless disaster for me (and, as I figured

out after some googling - not only for me).

I found some workarounds like:

1. use CAM job to output to "PS_INVERTED" device and get a PostScript

inverted image file - fail. It ignores everything placed on pads and output

pads as they are in libraries. That will not suites hobbyists since it's

very difficult to drill "regular" pads and they have to be enlarged (I

place vias with a big outer diameter and small inner for center drill

manually drilling the PCB). Even drill-aid script isn't working.

2. print to a PostScipt file with a regular Print dialog. Than, you have to

invert a needed part of sheet manually or use some other tools (I've tried

Imagemagick set). By manually inverting you loose time, lots of time. If

using scripts, you face some problems, that are very difficult to solve:

very hard to figure out what area to invert (for the script), and very hard

to make a new blank file with inverted image with a correct size/resolution

and hard to place PCB dawning on it. And all methods are anyway leads to

quality loss and some toolchain/third-party software on you hard drive -

fail.

3. use the exp2image script to get a png image. Easy to use, but very hard

to print because of placement troubles and resolution/scale/size

discrepancy. And external mirroring needed anyway. A print, got by that

method anyway differs from a print, that can be made with a "regular" print

command or printing to PostScript. It's almost OK for small PCBs, but will

make garbage for PCBs at least 10 cm by any dimension - fail.

 

If you search through the forum, you can find many questions about how to

print in negative. I think, it's a good time for fixing that issue.

 

And sure, there is a nice and clear solution: add "Negative" checkbox to

the printing dialog of the program. It will illuminate all the pains of

hobbyists, trying to make a negative template. So, all the options, that

are so helpful like image position predefinition (Alignment), Mirror,

Rotating and Black with "Invert" will make a perfect and comprehensive

software for those part of EAGLE users, that using it at home and don't

order PCBs in pcbhouses, but make them thyself. And even to improve it, a

border width edit should be added under "Negative" checkbox, so users can

set black border around Dimension line, that will became "white" after

inverting - for the sake of comfort.

-

 

P.S. I'm a week of searching an easy and suitable way of getting negatives

from EAGLE and steal in progress.

P.P.S. As I work for well known here software company, I know that you may

think it's a minor request and there are lots of urgent stuff to do, but

usability is that thing that should be thought about. By fixing that

request you will make life of hobbyists much and much easy and more

pleasant, especially if you are offering a special license for nonprofits.

Thank you.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

 

  • Cancel

Top Replies

  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 2 years ago in reply to billpenner +1
    Bill, this happened more than 10 years ago. Forgive and forget ;)
Parents
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago

     

    "cz0" <theerror@mail.ru> wrote in message

    news:iilk5i$aa$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    Hi, guys!

    I've been using EAGLE since 4.16 version as a hobbyist and bought

    non-profit license some time ago. Making PCBs with EAGLE and "laser

    printer

    and iron" is just perfect and there are very few things that can be added

    in there. But when I decided to "upgrade" to photoresist method I faced a

    strong problem. Here (in Russia) it's much easy to get negative

    photoresist

    since it's more popular among PCB manufactures. And getting a negative

    template from EAGLE became an endless disaster for me (and, as I figured

    out after some googling - not only for me).

    I found some workarounds like:

    1. use CAM job to output to "PS_INVERTED" device and get a PostScript

    inverted image file - fail. It ignores everything placed on pads and

    output

    pads as they are in libraries. That will not suites hobbyists since it's

    very difficult to drill "regular" pads and they have to be enlarged (I

    place vias with a big outer diameter and small inner for center drill

    manually drilling the PCB). Even drill-aid script isn't working.

    2. print to a PostScipt file with a regular Print dialog. Than, you have

    to

    invert a needed part of sheet manually or use some other tools (I've tried

    Imagemagick set). By manually inverting you loose time, lots of time. If

    using scripts, you face some problems, that are very difficult to solve:

    very hard to figure out what area to invert (for the script), and very

    hard

    to make a new blank file with inverted image with a correct

    size/resolution

    and hard to place PCB dawning on it. And all methods are anyway leads to

    quality loss and some toolchain/third-party software on you hard drive -

    fail.

    3. use the exp2image script to get a png image. Easy to use, but very hard

    to print because of placement troubles and resolution/scale/size

    discrepancy. And external mirroring needed anyway. A print, got by that

    method anyway differs from a print, that can be made with a "regular"

    print

    command or printing to PostScript. It's almost OK for small PCBs, but will

    make garbage for PCBs at least 10 cm by any dimension - fail.

     

    If you search through the forum, you can find many questions about how to

    print in negative. I think, it's a good time for fixing that issue.

     

    And sure, there is a nice and clear solution: add "Negative" checkbox to

    the printing dialog of the program. It will illuminate all the pains of

    hobbyists, trying to make a negative template. So, all the options, that

    are so helpful like image position predefinition (Alignment), Mirror,

    Rotating and Black with "Invert" will make a perfect and comprehensive

    software for those part of EAGLE users, that using it at home and don't

    order PCBs in pcbhouses, but make them thyself. And even to improve it, a

    border width edit should be added under "Negative" checkbox, so users can

    set black border around Dimension line, that will became "white" after

    inverting - for the sake of comfort.

    -

     

    P.S. I'm a week of searching an easy and suitable way of getting negatives

    from EAGLE and steal in progress.

    P.P.S. As I work for well known here software company, I know that you may

    think it's a minor request and there are lots of urgent stuff to do, but

    usability is that thing that should be thought about. By fixing that

    request you will make life of hobbyists much and much easy and more

    pleasant, especially if you are offering a special license for nonprofits.

    Thank you.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the

    CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

     

     

     

     

    Given that Eagle is used mainly by hobbyists (who make boards at home), I

    think that invert printing would be a great thing.

     

    I have always used dirty workarounds to print solder masks and other things

    right from Eagle, since I can count on 1:1 printing scale.

     

    --

    Silviu Epure

    "Dunarea de Jos" University of Galati, Romania

    http://www.etc.ugal.ro/sepure

     

     

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Silviu Epure wrote on Sun, 06 February 2011 09:14

    Given that Eagle is used mainly by hobbyists (who make boards at home)

     

    Really!!?  I find that hard to believe, since hobbyists tend to use free or

    very low priced versions.  Do you actually have real figures to back up

    your claim, or is this just something you made up that you think is true?

     

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Reply
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Silviu Epure wrote on Sun, 06 February 2011 09:14

    Given that Eagle is used mainly by hobbyists (who make boards at home)

     

    Really!!?  I find that hard to believe, since hobbyists tend to use free or

    very low priced versions.  Do you actually have real figures to back up

    your claim, or is this just something you made up that you think is true?

     

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
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