element14 Community
element14 Community
    Register Log In
  • Site
  • Search
  • Log In Register
  • About Us
  • Community Hub
    Community Hub
    • What's New on element14
    • Feedback and Support
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Personal Blogs
    • Members Area
    • Achievement Levels
  • Learn
    Learn
    • Ask an Expert
    • eBooks
    • element14 presents
    • Learning Center
    • Tech Spotlight
    • STEM Academy
    • Webinars, Training and Events
    • Learning Groups
  • Technologies
    Technologies
    • 3D Printing
    • FPGA
    • Industrial Automation
    • Internet of Things
    • Power & Energy
    • Sensors
    • Technology Groups
  • Challenges & Projects
    Challenges & Projects
    • Design Challenges
    • element14 presents Projects
    • Project14
    • Arduino Projects
    • Raspberry Pi Projects
    • Project Groups
  • Products
    Products
    • Arduino
    • Avnet Boards Community
    • Dev Tools
    • Manufacturers
    • Multicomp Pro
    • Product Groups
    • Raspberry Pi
    • RoadTests & Reviews
  • Store
    Store
    • Visit Your Store
    • Choose another store...
      • Europe
      •  Austria (German)
      •  Belgium (Dutch, French)
      •  Bulgaria (Bulgarian)
      •  Czech Republic (Czech)
      •  Denmark (Danish)
      •  Estonia (Estonian)
      •  Finland (Finnish)
      •  France (French)
      •  Germany (German)
      •  Hungary (Hungarian)
      •  Ireland
      •  Israel
      •  Italy (Italian)
      •  Latvia (Latvian)
      •  
      •  Lithuania (Lithuanian)
      •  Netherlands (Dutch)
      •  Norway (Norwegian)
      •  Poland (Polish)
      •  Portugal (Portuguese)
      •  Romania (Romanian)
      •  Russia (Russian)
      •  Slovakia (Slovak)
      •  Slovenia (Slovenian)
      •  Spain (Spanish)
      •  Sweden (Swedish)
      •  Switzerland(German, French)
      •  Turkey (Turkish)
      •  United Kingdom
      • Asia Pacific
      •  Australia
      •  China
      •  Hong Kong
      •  India
      •  Korea (Korean)
      •  Malaysia
      •  New Zealand
      •  Philippines
      •  Singapore
      •  Taiwan
      •  Thailand (Thai)
      • Americas
      •  Brazil (Portuguese)
      •  Canada
      •  Mexico (Spanish)
      •  United States
      Can't find the country/region you're looking for? Visit our export site or find a local distributor.
  • Translate
  • Profile
  • Settings
Autodesk EAGLE
  • Products
  • More
Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Support (English) Negative printing support
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • Documents
  • Events
  • Polls
  • Files
  • Members
  • Mentions
  • Sub-Groups
  • Tags
  • More
  • Cancel
  • New
Join Autodesk EAGLE to participate - click to join for free!
Actions
  • Share
  • More
  • Cancel
Forum Thread Details
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 26 replies
  • Subscribers 174 subscribers
  • Views 4743 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Related
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Negative printing support

Former Member
Former Member over 14 years ago

Hi, guys!

I've been using EAGLE since 4.16 version as a hobbyist and bought

non-profit license some time ago. Making PCBs with EAGLE and "laser printer

and iron" is just perfect and there are very few things that can be added

in there. But when I decided to "upgrade" to photoresist method I faced a

strong problem. Here (in Russia) it's much easy to get negative photoresist

since it's more popular among PCB manufactures. And getting a negative

template from EAGLE became an endless disaster for me (and, as I figured

out after some googling - not only for me).

I found some workarounds like:

1. use CAM job to output to "PS_INVERTED" device and get a PostScript

inverted image file - fail. It ignores everything placed on pads and output

pads as they are in libraries. That will not suites hobbyists since it's

very difficult to drill "regular" pads and they have to be enlarged (I

place vias with a big outer diameter and small inner for center drill

manually drilling the PCB). Even drill-aid script isn't working.

2. print to a PostScipt file with a regular Print dialog. Than, you have to

invert a needed part of sheet manually or use some other tools (I've tried

Imagemagick set). By manually inverting you loose time, lots of time. If

using scripts, you face some problems, that are very difficult to solve:

very hard to figure out what area to invert (for the script), and very hard

to make a new blank file with inverted image with a correct size/resolution

and hard to place PCB dawning on it. And all methods are anyway leads to

quality loss and some toolchain/third-party software on you hard drive -

fail.

3. use the exp2image script to get a png image. Easy to use, but very hard

to print because of placement troubles and resolution/scale/size

discrepancy. And external mirroring needed anyway. A print, got by that

method anyway differs from a print, that can be made with a "regular" print

command or printing to PostScript. It's almost OK for small PCBs, but will

make garbage for PCBs at least 10 cm by any dimension - fail.

 

If you search through the forum, you can find many questions about how to

print in negative. I think, it's a good time for fixing that issue.

 

And sure, there is a nice and clear solution: add "Negative" checkbox to

the printing dialog of the program. It will illuminate all the pains of

hobbyists, trying to make a negative template. So, all the options, that

are so helpful like image position predefinition (Alignment), Mirror,

Rotating and Black with "Invert" will make a perfect and comprehensive

software for those part of EAGLE users, that using it at home and don't

order PCBs in pcbhouses, but make them thyself. And even to improve it, a

border width edit should be added under "Negative" checkbox, so users can

set black border around Dimension line, that will became "white" after

inverting - for the sake of comfort.

-

 

P.S. I'm a week of searching an easy and suitable way of getting negatives

from EAGLE and steal in progress.

P.P.S. As I work for well known here software company, I know that you may

think it's a minor request and there are lots of urgent stuff to do, but

usability is that thing that should be thought about. By fixing that

request you will make life of hobbyists much and much easy and more

pleasant, especially if you are offering a special license for nonprofits.

Thank you.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

 

  • Cancel

Top Replies

  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 2 years ago in reply to billpenner +1
    Bill, this happened more than 10 years ago. Forgive and forget ;)
Parents
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago

    Yah, that what I sought before this topic. And I'm not the only one

    suffering from missing negative printing. I'm not saying that printing a

    negative template is impossible, I'm using GIMP and printing to .ps right

    now and it gives me perfect prints. I'm just saying that this is not to be

    in that way, because it's the feature people need. Sure, we can use some

    other software to do the work. And sure, some of us can even use some other

    CADs to do the job. CADs that capable of printing inverted image without

    playing tambourine before that mythic process. I've wrote a complete

    'guide' describing why all existing methods suck.

     

    "..not add every silly little feature whenever some whining hobbyist can't

    spell "pixel"." - go and google for negative printing from EAGLE and you

    will see that MANY people need that "feature" without any external

    software.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    grubber wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 16:07

    And I'm not the only one suffering from missing negative printing.

     

    Oh gimme a break.  You're "suffering" because you either have to spend 3

    seconds typing a command to invert a image file, or set up Eagle with the

    white background before exporting a image file!?  If you really care that

    much, you should be able to write a simple Eagle script that sets the

    background to white, enables only the layers that result in top copper,

    then exports the image file.

     

    Quote:

    I'm not saying that printing a negative template is impossible,

     

    Good thing, since it's downright trivial.

     

    Quote:

    I'm using GIMP and printing to .ps right now and it gives me perfect

    prints.

     

    Wait, all this whining and you actually have it working perfectly!?

     

    Quote:

    Sure, we can use some other software to do the work. And sure, some of

    us can even use some other CADs to do the job. CADs that capable of

    printing inverted image without playing tambourine before that mythic

    process. I've wrote a complete 'guide' describing why all existing

    methods suck.

     

    Did you bother to look at what I did as a example?  It was really easy.  I

    probably could have written a Eagle script to do it in one command if I

    really cared.

     

    Quote:

    "..not add every silly little feature whenever some whining hobbyist

    can't spell "pixel"." - go and google for negative printing from EAGLE

    and you will see that MANY people need that "feature" without any

    external software.

     

    I didn't look, but at best that will show a list of clueless morons that

    are too lazy to read the manual or too dumb to know how to flip a image

    file.  They don't "need" this, they're just too dumb to realize how easy it

    already is to do it.

     

    Did you even try using the white background in the board editor before

    exporting a image file?  I didn't try it, but I think that will get you

    what you want totally within Eagle.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Olin wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 17:32

    Did you even try using the white background in the board editor before

    exporting a image file?  I didn't try it, but I think that will get you

    what you want totally within Eagle.

     

    I got curious, so I tried it.  Yup, it works exactly as I thought.  In

    other words, the requested feature is already in Eagle and is very easy to

    access.  I even put the commands into a script.  This took maybe 3 minutes,

    mostly because I couldn't remember how to switch the palette and the EXPORT

    command syntax off the top of my head.  I had to actually  read the

    help for SET and EXPORT.  Here is the script:

     

     

    set palette white;

    display none top pads vias;

    export image c:\temp\a.tif monochrome 600;This made a image with black

    traces and white background.  To keep the file size down, I took a snippet

    from this image and attached it.

     

    Of course you adjust the 600 in the script above to whatever the native

    resolution of your printer is.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

     

    "Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote in message

    news:ij8rhk$rvf$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    Olin wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 17:32

    In other words, the requested feature is already in Eagle and is very

    easy to

    access.

     

     

    You are wrong!

    The requested feature asked for negative printing (this means white traces

    and black background!), not black tracks! And this "feature" is nor

    implemented nor "easy to access".

     

    --

    Silviu Epure

    "Dunarea de Jos" University of Galati, Romania

    http://www.etc.ugal.ro/sepure

     

     

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Reply
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

     

    "Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote in message

    news:ij8rhk$rvf$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    Olin wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 17:32

    In other words, the requested feature is already in Eagle and is very

    easy to

    access.

     

     

    You are wrong!

    The requested feature asked for negative printing (this means white traces

    and black background!), not black tracks! And this "feature" is nor

    implemented nor "easy to access".

     

    --

    Silviu Epure

    "Dunarea de Jos" University of Galati, Romania

    http://www.etc.ugal.ro/sepure

     

     

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Children
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Silviu Epure wrote on Sun, 13 February 2011 11:30

    You are wrong!

     

    Clearly you didn't bother look at the example images I provided.

     

    Quote:

    The requested feature asked for negative printing (this means white

    traces and black background!), not black tracks!  And this "feature" is

    nor implemented nor "easy to access".

     

    OK, so you want white tracks on black instead of black tracks on white.

    Big deal.  The first example image I showed had exactly that, so I don't

    understand what your problem is.  In my previous message, change "set

    palette white" to "set palette black" in the script I showed and you get

    white traces on a black background.

     

    Since you and the OP apparently need everything on a silver platter, here

    it is:

     

     

    set palette black;

    display none top pads vias;

    export image c:\temp\a.tif monochrome 600;If you don't think a 3 line

    script you write once makes the feature "easy to access", then life must be

    very hard for you.

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

     

    "Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote in message

    news:ij92ma$v4f$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

    OK, so you want white tracks on black instead of black tracks on white.

    Big deal.  The first example image I showed had exactly that, so I don't

     

    Wrong again!

    we asked for a PRINT of that image right from EAGLE. Read again the thread!

     

     

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Former Member
    Former Member over 14 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Silviu Epure wrote on Sun, 13 February 2011 12:18

    Wrong again!  we asked for a PRINT of that image right from EAGLE. Read

    again the thread!

     

    OMG!!! Someone would have to, like, you know, write to one of those file

    thingies, like, then print that.  Eeek.  How can I possibly do that while

    texting on my phone and drying my nails at the same time!image

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
element14 Community

element14 is the first online community specifically for engineers. Connect with your peers and get expert answers to your questions.

  • Members
  • Learn
  • Technologies
  • Challenges & Projects
  • Products
  • Store
  • About Us
  • Feedback & Support
  • FAQs
  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy Policy
  • Legal and Copyright Notices
  • Sitemap
  • Cookies

An Avnet Company © 2025 Premier Farnell Limited. All Rights Reserved.

Premier Farnell Ltd, registered in England and Wales (no 00876412), registered office: Farnell House, Forge Lane, Leeds LS12 2NE.

ICP 备案号 10220084.

Follow element14

  • X
  • Facebook
  • linkedin
  • YouTube