The GROUP TOOL Needs to work different.

Am 22.06.2011 03:50, schrieb James Morrison:

eSilviu wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 05:08

>> "davem" group comand).

>

Altium has that with "snippets" I think they call it.  That would be a

great feature for circuits like RS232 transceivers and connectors that tend

to be there for diag purposes in the corner of the board where things

aren't too dense.  You lay it out once and then paste the schematic and

board layout into your design.  If the layout bit just got stuck off to the

side and you had to move it as a group to where you wanted that would be

fine.

 

So yes, I think that would be useful.  Seems very close to design reuse and

maybe even hierarchy if implemented right.

 

James.

 

If eagle would have a hierarchy design that should be possible. Right

now in a new design with eagle the first thing i do is to throw in the

RS-232 and/or the USB interface.

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

eSilviu wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 05:08

"davem" <<private_email>> wrote in message

news:itjb1q$se5$<private_email>...

Another idea is that why couldn't we treat a Group of parts as ONE

PART,

and keep this in the library!, This would be so useful!

 

You start to sound like my proposal, where a local library should be

created

for the curent project, that should contain used components with only

used

footprints, and  any "macro" component defined in project (obvious with

 

group comand).

Altium has that with "snippets" I think they call it.  That would be a

great feature for circuits like RS232 transceivers and connectors that tend

to be there for diag purposes in the corner of the board where things

aren't too dense.  You lay it out once and then paste the schematic and

board layout into your design.  If the layout bit just got stuck off to the

side and you had to move it as a group to where you wanted that would be

fine.

So yes, I think that would be useful.  Seems very close to design reuse and

maybe even hierarchy if implemented right.

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

Specializing in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

"davem" <imix@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message

news:itjb1q$se5$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

Another idea is that why couldn't we treat a Group of parts as ONE PART,

and keep this in the library!, This would be so useful!

You start to sound like my proposal, where a local library should be created

for the curent project, that should contain used components with only used

footprints, and  any "macro" component defined in project (obvious with

group comand).

Hi Olin & James,

I just tested out the multiple selection ( Group) method and I got it to

work, you have to select GROUP Again.

Ok, That parts ok, but I still don't see why we need to select GROUP at

all. I remember when I first used EagleCad this drove me nuts!

Secondly, The main point is to be able to" REALLY" GROUP OBJECT as James

has suggested especially for the use of SUB-CIRCUITS being grouped.

It would be great to select part of a layout and DUPLICATE That , I would

want the SCHEMATIC to AUTOMATICALLY create the grouped symbol as well. We

could have it so that

a) Groups are RELATED to the First Instance, so that to make a change to a

part of the group you need to do this in the FIRST InStance, and all the

other "Related" groups change.

b) Grouped are NOT RELATED, so changes to any part of any of these groups

do not automatically update. This would just be a simple time saver for

duplicating repeating parts of a circuit.

Another idea is that why couldn't we treat a Group of parts as ONE PART,

and keep this in the library!, This would be so useful!

Dave M

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Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

davem wrote on Sat, 18 June 2011 03:00

I think that the GROUP TOOL ( And selections)  Needs to work

differently!

 

Nearly all "drawing" type apps have a MOUSE SELECTION of objects on a

screen by just simply clicking down and dragging around the objects you

want to SELECT. I see no reason why Eaglecad can't work this way.

It does.

After EDIT > GROUP left click instead of the usual right click rectangle

drag.  You can specify a polygon with successive left clicks, then close

the polygon and end the group definition with a right click.

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davem wrote on Sat, 18 June 2011 03:00

HI,

 

I think that the GROUP TOOL ( And selections)  Needs to work

differently!

 

Nearly all "drawing" type apps have a MOUSE SELECTION of objects on a

screen by just simply clicking down and dragging around the objects you

want to SELECT. I see no reason why Eaglecad can't work this way. It

would be more intuitive.

 

The idea is that by clicking on any blank area of the schematic or

layout windows a "selection rectangle" also called "marquee" will appear

WITHOUT the need to select the GROUP Tool first

 

We should also be able to ADD or REMOVE items from the "Current"

selection by using the COMMAND/CONTROL Key ( for Add )  or

SHIFT+Command/CONTROL ( Remove ) or even SHIFT CLICK for MULTIPLE

selections!

 

The selection rectangle COULD stay visible until its done. and the

objects should stay highlighted until done.

 

Then once we have a selection we can Right Click and a Contextual menu

will appear ( or just choose a tool button) for all the possible actions

that can be used, ( I.e Duplicate, Delete, Cut, Copy, Rotate, Lock/Unlock

etc)

 

And especially a new feature that allows this selection to be GROUPED

TOGETHER by giving the selection a NAME. (e.g "Power Supply"), and this

NAME can be seen in the BOM or elsewhere.(i.e the properties window for a

part.)

 

This way is we say group items together they can stay grouped ( if a

name is given) and then work with all the standard functions but worked

on as a group,This would be great for repeating parts a of a circuit

including the BOARD LAYOUT!

 

If a group of items is selected, then some new features like

ALIGN/DISTRIBUTE would also come in handy especially for the BOARD

LAYOUT.

 

Pressing ESC cancels the selection.

 

Parts could be tagged with a small icon that shows its locked.

 

What do you think?

Hello Dave,

I don't buy the idea that just because everyone else does it one way that

EAGLE should necessarily change.  And the functionality that is there now

works quite well for the intended purpose.  However, I think there is some

value to looking for ways to further optimise things.

I group things a lot so any improvements will have a big impact.

I think there is value in having some default behaviour when no function is

selected.  I think the CadSoft software guys are smart enough to be able to

allow for mouse activation of the move and group commands based on mouse

clicks and drags like you suggest.  If you start a click and drag away from

any selectable object then you automatically start a group.  If you click

and drag on an object then automatically start moving that part.  I don't

think that breaks anything that is already in place and it would be a great

help to newbies who are used to that functionality--I don't see a down

side.

Most don't know this, but you can build up a group through multiple

selections.  You have to select group function then select components in

group by drawing rectangle or multi-click polygon (the multi-click polygon

selection is priceless--I don't know why other tools don't allow for it.

This is one thing EAGLE does better than ANY other tool).  If you want to

add more to the group then you have to select group again, hold down the

shift key and then select more objects to add to group.

This would be a lot better if the group command was sticky.  In other

words, once I select the group command any selections I continue to make

with the shift key down should be added to the uber-group I'm defining.

There should be no need to continue to select the group command in this

case.

Additionally, if I have group active and I have the shift key down then

individual objects I click on should be added to the group too.  Again, I

don't see any way this breaks what is already done but only adds

functionality that most people expect.  So no down side.

Finally, I'd like to see the ability to glue a group together, like

autocad.  Once I get my RS232 transceiver circuit placed and routed I could

group it all and then glue it together so it moved as one unit.  We already

have the smash command which could break it back out into its regular

components.  That would be very handy.  It would be good to be able to give

names to the groups as well so that you could access them from the command

line with the move command (or via scripts).

I would think this concept of a glued group would be very helpful in design

heirarchy or design reuse.  Imagine you layout one channel of a design,

glue it together, and then select a command for EAGLE to simply duplicate

other channels just like the glued group.  That would be very useful and

save lots of work.  The components of the second channel could be placed in

the exact same manner (with an user-defined offset) and then routed

identically.

So, yes I agree there is more that can be done.  The current implementation

of group could be enhanced in many ways.

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

Specializing in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.