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EAGLE User Support (English) A newcomer's experience and what can be done about it
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  • standardization
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Related

A newcomer's experience and what can be done about it

lix
lix over 14 years ago
Hello,
As I just finished my first (small) project in Eagle, I want to express some thoughts on how the program could be improved, especially from the point of view of a new user who did not gave up after his first contact with the software (as probably many other did!). Although I read that an upcoming V6 is under way, however I have no hopes that CadSoft would take my suggestion seriously (it's probably too late anyway); in this respect, you can see my post as an exercise in futility…
First, some relevant information on myself: although I am a newcomer to Eagle, I have a large engineering experience in electronics and software development. During the mid-eighties I led a small team who designed a PCB layout program on a graphical CP/M machine (using a mouse!); by the end of the eighties I jumped on Orcad, then in the nineties on Accel Technology's Tango suite (under DOS), and later on P-CAD 2000 under Windows, which I still use today. On occasion I had to professionally evaluate several CAD programs, including but not limited to Protel, Specctra and Ultiboard.
I also stumbled upon Eagle several times, but it never made it, as the UI was so clumsy. I re-visited it now for several reasons: as I am soon going to retire but still plan to work on hobby projects, I need a reliable and low-cost tool, which ideally should work also on a Macintosh. As the Mac version now runs natively (previous releases required the X11 windowing subsystem), I saw it as suitable solution.
In order to make things straight: I have no issues with any OS or computer maker, be it Linux, Windows or MacOS X. I had (and partially still have) to deal in my career with all of them, and many other Unices in-between (HP-UX, AIX, DG-UX, Nextstep, etc.). And yes, I am a long time user of many CLIs (command line interfaces), from CP/M to DOS to sh, tcsh, bash, etc., even to some written by myself while developing software for various projects.
However, for personal reasons I need not to explain, my current working machine is a MacBook Pro notebook (and I am very happy with it). I use the Parallels virtualization software to run several virtual machines, among others a Ubuntu Linux and a Windows 7.
Now back to Eagle. My remarks are based on the use of the freeware, unregistered Eagle version 5.11.0 on a MacBook Pro running MacOS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).
To summarize my experience in a single phrase: Eagle is an incredibly solid and powerful piece of software, with an incredibly poor user interface. Let me now go to the details.
The good: the software is very solid, during my three weeks experience with Eagle, it never crashed and I never lost files or parts I've designed in my own library. I was particularly impressed with the autorouter. I've used and seen quite some of them in my professional life, including the Cooper & Chan autorouter, quite famous by the end of the nineties, but for this price Eagle is really outstanding. And last but not least, Eagle is probably one of the few (if not the single) serious CAD packages that runs natively on the Mac.
The bad: the user interface is non-standard by any of today's GUI standards, be it Windows, Mac or Linux. The library management system is a complete torture. The fact that Eagle runs on more than one platform may have led to some curious decisions by the developers, as for instance ignoring many of the underlying APIs of the individual OSes and rather build instead their own functions/classes (wheel re-invention). The net result is that the program looks and acts strange, gives the feeling of "not belonging here". Frustration is the first feeling a newcomer gets, so in this respect, the acronim "Easily Applicable Graphical Layout Editor" (Eagle) is only wishful thinking.
There are many issues that I consider as not being compliant with modern GUI design principles, but I will list only the most glaring of them. I believe changing these would not alienate current users, but would greatly increase the number of new users adopting Eagle.
1. This one must be written in bold letters: elimination of the "MOVE" command (button). This should be replaced with the default state of the GUI, that should be reached by clicking a button represented normally by an arrow (standard for most drawing programs). In this state, it should be possible to click on an object, be it a part, a text, a pad, a line, etc. and move it by acting on the mouse. A right click should bring a context sensitive menu that should allow additional operations like "delete", "rotate", "replace", or show "properties". In addition, several keys should be used as shortcuts that would greatly increase the speed of operation (e.g. "R" for rotate, "DEL" or "backspace" for delete, etc.). Obviously, the keys should have some defaults, but should be user assignable. It is important that the shortcuts should work without modifier keys (i.e. CTRL, ALT, CMD, SHIFT), therefore a solution must be found for the CLI. And this brings me to the second issue:
2. Eliminate the CLI from the GUI, or at least allow it to be hidden (this should be the default). I spent quite some time reading the forum and I noticed that there are a couple of die-hard users that would rather get rid of one of their fingers than of the CLI. However, they are a small minority. There is even someone claiming being able to do certain operations 10 times faster with the CLI than in the GUI: this doesn't mean that the CLI (or for that matter that guy) is better, rather that the GUI is so poorly designed, that it does not offer the same functionality!
3. Another disturbing deviation from standard GUI practices is the use of the right-click button for the ROTATE function. Right-click brings a context menu on all platforms, be it Windows, Mac or Linux. Eagle is inconsistent in this respect: there are situations where a right-click brings indeed a contextual menu, but others where not. Rotate should be implemented through a simple key (user-programmable): as long as an object is selected, pressing a key without modifiers (e.g. "R") should perform the rotation. And still better: "SHIFT+R" should rotate the part in 45 degrees increments, while "ALT+R" in one-degree increments.
4. Operations performed on multiple objects are sorely missing (maybe they are possible within the CLI, but this is not the point). For instance, there are no ways (or at least I've found none) to change at once one or more characteristics of all pins in a package (library edit), or to change the width of a set of lines, or the parameters of several vias. You need to take each and every object individually and apply the required modification. If you can do this with a simple CLI command, then it is understandably why some users  need it, but again, this only demonstrates a badly designed GUI.
5. The total confusion surrounding the cut/copy/paste operations (largely discussed elsewhere on the forum). Why should Eagle use different meanings for these commands, when everybody knows by now what they should do? The presence of two similar buttons (cut and delete) is confusing enough. I had a hard time copying a symbol from a library into my own library following the step-by-step procedure in the manual, simply because I confused the CUT button with the DELETE button (in this case indeed, the CLI saved me, because typing the commands indicated in the manual led to the expected result; later I found out that in fact I have had to use the scissors button). To resume: the actual DELETE should be renamed CUT while the actual CUT should be renamed COPY. And PASTE should paste the same object as long as it is used, without the need to re-copy the object. In fact the PASTE button is now mixture of COPY and PASTE, which is wrong. If I need to copy&paste one pin 24 times (e.g. for an IC), why do I need to click double so much times as necessary? It should work like this: select the master pin, click copy (or, better right-click and select copy), then click paste 24 times.
6. Another strange thing is that after the initial start, if you resize a schematic or layout editor window its content is also resized. Thus it's impossible to scroll, simply because there are no scroll bars unless you zoom in. This behavior is incorrect, the content's size must remain unchanged and only the scroll bars should be updated (if required). But again, these side-effects are the result of not using the APIs provided by the individual underlying OS on which Eagle is running.
7. The library management must be re-worked. The general paradigm is quite well thought (the Device/Package/Symbol concept), however, there are many implementation issues. I find inconsistent that the symbols are not displayed in the library hierarchy. Deleting library objects is awkward, one must always know the exact name of the object in order to delete it. Why not simply search for it in the library hierarchy, right-click and choose "delete"? The same applies for "rename". And, as I already hinted before, there should be a much obvious way to create new packages/symbols starting from existing objects, e.g: open an existing object, modify it and then save it into the same library with a different name, or into a different library with any name you want. A sort of "save as…" for devices/packages/symbols.
8. There are serious issues with the mouse and display, at least on the Mac version: sometimes when scrolling the drawing is only partially redrawn. I need to click the redraw button to correct the situation. In addition, due to the proprietary mouse control implementation, I can't scroll left/right, which would be a major benefit, especially for those users having a multi-touch capable trackpad (all MacsBooks manufactured after 2007 have one). By the way, it is my experience that a multi-touch capable trackpad can almost completely replace a mouse and it is much confortable to work with.
9. And finally, a minor one: ESC should terminate all commands, including "place via" or "place hole".
All the above suggestions concern only the user interface. There are obviously other potential improvements in other areas, and many of them have already been suggested by other posters. As a beginner with Eagle I am not yet in a position to comment on this. From what I have seen so far, Eagle seems to me a very solid piece of software with great potential. It's a pity that due to the unconventional user interface so maney potential users are scared away. I suspect improvements at this level would help increase Eagle's market share.
Since 1984 when the first GUI becomes available for the large masses (the launch of the original Macintosh), the GUI has established itself and reached a good level of standardization. The graphics may be different between Windows, Mac and Linux, but most of the mouse and keyboard interactions are rather common on all of them. Why should Eagle be different?
Nevertheless, no matter what CadSoft will do with their next release, I plan to continue using Eagle for future projects, but only for private use for the time being (I will probably even buy the hobbyist version). If during the next releases the user interface will improve (and standardize), I might even recommend it for professional use.
Lix

Hello,

 

As I just finished my first (small) project in Eagle, I want to express some thoughts on how the program could be improved, especially from the point of view of a new user who did not gave up after his first contact with the software (as probably many other did!). Although I read that an upcoming V6 is under way, however I have no hopes that CadSoft would take my suggestions seriously (it's probably too late anyway); in this respect, you can see my post as an exercise in futility…

 

First, some relevant information about myself: although I am a newcomer to Eagle, I have a large engineering experience in electronics and software development. During the mid-eighties I led a small team who designed a PCB layout program on a graphical CP/M machine (using a mouse!); by the end of the eighties I jumped on Orcad, then in the nineties on Accel Technology's Tango suite (under DOS), and later on P-CAD 2000 under Windows, which I still use today. On occasion I had to professionally evaluate several CAD programs, including but not limited to Protel, Specctra and Ultiboard.

 

I also stumbled upon Eagle several times, but it never made it, as the UI was so clumsy. I re-visited it now for several reasons: as I am soon going to retire but still plan to work on hobby projects, I need a reliable and low-cost tool, which ideally should work also on a Macintosh. As the Mac version now runs natively (previous releases required the X11 windowing subsystem), I saw it as suitable solution.

 

In order to make things straight: I have no issues with any OS or computer maker, be it Linux, Windows or MacOS X. I had (and partially still have) to deal in my career with all of them, and many other Unices in-between (HP-UX, AIX, DG-UX, Nextstep, etc.). And yes, I am a long time user of many CLIs (command line interfaces), from CP/M to DOS to sh, tcsh, bash, etc., even to some written by myself while developing software for various projects.

 

However, for personal reasons I need not to explain, my current working machine is a MacBook Pro notebook (and BTW, I am very happy with it). I use Parallels virtualization software to run several virtual machines, among others a Ubuntu Linux and a Windows 7.

 

Now back to Eagle. My remarks are based on the use of the freeware, unregistered Eagle version 5.11.0 on a MacBook Pro running MacOS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).

 

To summarize my experience in a single phrase: Eagle is an incredibly solid and powerful piece of software, with an incredibly poor user interface. Let me now go into details.

 

The good: the software is very solid, during my three weeks experience with Eagle, it never crashed and I never lost files or parts I've designed in my own library. I was particularly impressed with the autorouter. I've used and seen quite some of them in my professional life, including the Cooper & Chan autorouter, quite famous by the end of the nineties, but for this price Eagle is really outstanding. And last but not least, Eagle is probably one of the few (if not the single) serious CAD packages that run natively on the Mac.

 

The bad: the user interface is non-standard by any of today's GUI standards, be it Windows, Mac or Linux. The library management system is a torture. The fact that Eagle runs on more than one platform may have led to some curious decisions by the developers, as for instance ignoring many of the underlying APIs of the individual OSes and rather build instead their own functions/classes (wheel re-invention). The net result is that the program looks and acts strange, gives the feeling of "not belonging here". Frustration is the first feeling a newcomer gets, so with all due respect, the acronim "Easily Applicable Graphical Layout Editor" (Eagle) is only wishful thinking (maybe it was true 15 years ago, but not anymore today).

 

There are many issues that I consider as not being compliant with modern GUI design principles, but I will list only the most glaring of them. I believe changing these would not alienate current users, but would greatly increase the number of new users adopting Eagle.

 

1. This one must be written in bold letters: elimination of the "MOVE" command (button). This should be replaced with the default state of the GUI, that should be reached by clicking a button represented normally by an arrow (standard for most drawing programs). In this state, it should be possible to click on an object, be it a part, a text, a pad, a line, etc. and move it by acting on the mouse. A right click should bring a context sensitive menu that should allow additional operations like "delete", "rotate", "replace", or show "properties". In addition, several keys should be used as shortcuts that would greatly increase the speed of operation (e.g. "R" for rotate, "DEL" or "backspace" for delete, etc.). Obviously, the keys should have some defaults, but should be user assignable. It is important that the shortcuts work without modifier keys (i.e. CTRL, ALT, CMD, SHIFT), therefore a solution must be found for the CLI. And this brings me to the second issue:

 

2. Eliminate the CLI from the GUI, or at least allow it to be hidden (this should be the default). I spent quite some time reading the forum and I noticed that there are a couple of die-hard users that would rather get rid of one of their fingers than of the CLI. However, these are a small minority. Someone claimed being able to do certain operations 10 times faster with the CLI than in the GUI: this doesn't mean that the CLI (or for that matter that guy) is better, rather that the GUI is so poorly designed and not offering the same functionality!

 

3. Another disturbing deviation from standard GUI practices is the use of the right-click button for the ROTATE function. Right-click brings a context menu on all platforms, be it Windows, Mac or Linux. Eagle is inconsistent in this respect: there are situations where a right-click brings indeed a contextual menu, but others where not. Rotate should be implemented through a simple key (user-programmable): as long as an object is selected, pressing a key without modifiers (e.g. "R") should perform the rotation. And still better: "SHIFT+R" should rotate the part in 45 degrees increments, while "ALT+R" in one-degree increments.

 

4. Operations performed on multiple objects are sorely missing (maybe they are possible within the CLI, but this is not the point). For instance, there are no ways (or at least I've found none) to change at once one or more characteristics of all pins in a package (library edit), or to change the width of a set of lines, or the parameters of several vias. You need to take each and every object individually and apply the required modification. If you can do this with a simple CLI command, then it is understandably why some users  need it, but again, this only demonstrates a badly designed GUI.

 

5. The cut/copy/paste operations are totaly confusing (this is largely discussed elsewhere on the forum). Why should Eagle use different meanings for these commands, when everybody knows by now what they should do? The presence of two similar buttons (CUT and DELETE) is confusing enough. I had a hard time copying a symbol from a library into my own library following the step-by-step procedure in the manual, simply because I confused the CUT button with the DELETE button (in this case indeed, the CLI saved me, because typing the commands indicated in the manual led to the expected result; later I found out that in fact I have had to use the scissors button). To resume: the actual DELETE should be renamed CUT while the actual CUT should be renamed COPY. And PASTE should paste the same object as long as it is used, without the need to re-copy the object. In fact the PASTE button is now a mixture of COPY and PASTE, which is confusing. If I need to copy&paste one pin 24 times (e.g. for an IC), why do I need to click double so much times as necessary? It should work like this: select the master pin, click copy (or, better right-click and select copy), then click paste 24 times.

 

6. Another strange thing is that after the initial start, if you resize a schematic or layout editor window, its content is also resized. Thus it's impossible to scroll, simply because there are no scroll bars unless you zoom in. This behavior is incorrect, the content's size must remain unchanged and only the scroll bars should be updated (if required). But again, these side-effects are probably the result of not using the APIs provided by the individual underlying OS on which Eagle runs.

 

7. The library management must be re-worked. The general paradigm is quite well thought (the Device/Package/Symbol concept), however, there are many implementation issues. For example I find inconsistent that the symbols are not displayed in the library hierarchy. Deleting library objects is awkward, one must always know the exact name of the object in order to delete it. Why not simply search for it in the library hierarchy, right-click and choose "delete"? The same applies for "rename". And, there should be a much obvious way to create new packages/symbols starting from existing objects, e.g: open an existing object, modify it and then save it into the same library with a different name, or into a different library with any name you want. A sort of "save as…" for devices/packages/symbols.

 

8. There are serious issues with the mouse and display, at least on the Mac version: sometimes when scrolling the drawing is only partially redrawn, large screen areas remain blank. I need to click the redraw button to correct the situation. In addition, due to the proprietary mouse control implementation, I can't scroll left/right, which would be a major benefit, especially for those users having a multi-touch capable trackpad (all MacsBooks manufactured after 2007 have one). By the way, it is my experience that a multi-touch capable trackpad can almost completely replace the mouse and is much comfortable to work with.

 

9. And finally, a minor one: ESC should terminate all commands, including "place via" or "place hole".

 

All the above suggestions concern only the user interface. There are probably other potential improvements in other areas, and some of them have already been suggested by other posters. As a beginner with Eagle I am not yet in a position to comment on this. From what I have seen so far, Eagle seems to me a very solid piece of software with great potential. It's a pity that due to the unconventional user interface so many initial users are scared away. I suspect improvements in this area would help increase Eagle's market share.

 

Since 1984 when the first GUI became available for the large masses (with the launch of the original Macintosh), the GUI has established itself and reached a good level of standardization. After all, 27 years passed since then! The graphics may be different between Windows, Mac and Linux, but most of user interactions with the mouse and the keyboard are rather common on all of them. Why should Eagle be different?

 

Nevertheless, no matter what CadSoft will do with their next release, I plan to continue using Eagle for future projects, but only for private use for the time being (I will probably even buy the hobbyist version). If future releases will improve (and standardize) on the user interface, I might even recommend it for professional use.

 

Lix

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago

    Vom: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:54:41 GMT

     

    Hi,

     

    your post is a nice read. Let me share some thoughts about this:

     

     

    To summarize my experience in a single phrase: Eagle is an

    incredibly solid and powerful piece of software, with an incredibly

    poor user interface. Let me now go to the details. The good: the

     

    I completly agree with this. Sadly, eagle lacks any form of API.

    Personally I believe that someone would have created a better GUI (or

    even multiple projects for different tastes) sitting on the Eagle core

    if there only would be a way to do that. Even the original GUI could be

    greatly improved by a decent plugin-interface (Strangely I seem to be

    the only person asking for that, but lots of people complain about the

    GUI)

     

     

    being able to do certain operations 10 times faster with the CLI than

    in the GUI: this doesn't mean that the CLI (or for that matter that

    guy) is better, rather that the GUI is so poorly designed, that it

     

    While I completly agree with you about the context-menu and everything

    else you wrote, I couldn't disagree more on this point: there is no way

    a GUI could ever support wildcards. Most of the eagle commands (sadly,

    not all of them) support using wildcards to selectively modify certain

    groups of objects. No GUI could ever beat that.

    And I really don't think the small CLI line hurts anyone in any way.

    Of course, it also wouldn't hurt to introduce the possibility to hide

    it, but it would prevent people from learning to use it. Imho, the only

    efficient way to use CAD software is a mixture of gui and cli.

     

    4.

    Operations performed on multiple objects are sorely missing (maybe

    they are possible within the CLI, but this is not the point).

     

    you didn't find the GROUP command? It's in plain sight image

     

     

    manual, simply because I confused the CUT button with the DELETE

    button (in this case indeed, the CLI saved me, because typing the

     

    Eagle supports tooltips, just hover the mouse over a GUI element to

    show the name of the command. Strange you didn't find that, it's

    standard on all GUIs.

     

     

    simply because there are no scroll bars unless you zoom in. This

    behavior is incorrect, the content's size must remain unchanged and

     

    That's simply not true. There is no common standard about that. (Maybe

    there should, but I wouldn't consider that as the biggest problem in

    Eagle)

     

     

    only the scroll bars should be updated (if required). But again,

    these side-effects are the result of not using the APIs provided by

     

    I'm not 100% sure, but I think eagle uses the Qt libraries? (Someone

    correct me if wrong, please)

     

     

    manufactured after 2007 have one). By the way, it is my experience

    that a multi-touch capable trackpad can almost completely replace a

    mouse and it is much confortable to work with. 9. And finally, a

     

    are you telling people that you want to use a CAD program with a

    multi-touch display and your fingers? Without mouse? Without CLI?

     

     

    Anyway, a lot of the stuff you mentioned is true and I guess not easy

    to solve. Personally I believe, that eagle has become a monolithic

    code-monster over time and a new major release with minor changes

    and a bit of lametta doesn't solve problems.

     

    Instead, it should be cleaned and modularized according to "modern"

    software-design principles. (But what do I know, you need to see

    the code to really be able to judge that).

    Using XML is a great step into that direction imo, but sadly it's the

    only step. With well designed software, good GUI design is just a

    matter of interfaces and "fast graphics output". For anything else you

    don't even need a software-developer.

     

     

    many regards

     

     

     

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  • lix
    lix over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    Hi Daniel,

    While I completly agree with you about the context-menu and everything

    else you wrote, I couldn't disagree more on this point: there is no way

    a GUI could ever support wildcards. Most of the eagle commands (sadly,

    not all of them) support using wildcards to selectively modify certain

    groups of objects. No GUI could ever beat that.

    I beg to differ on this one, either I don't get the meaning of what "wildcards" in this context is, or you haven't seen how such a problem is solved with a GUI. With many graphic editors, one can select certain objects (or certain type of objects) and apply a transformation on all of them with one click. Is this not what you mean by "wildcard"? See also below, I believe it is in the same context.

     

    Operations performed on multiple objects are sorely missing (maybe

    they are possible within the CLI, but this is not the point).

     

    you didn't find the GROUP command? It's in plain sight image

    Yes, I've even used it, but I guess we have different ideas about multiple selection. Please refer to the example I gave: how would you modify all pin lenghts of an IC with 24 pins using the GROUP command? Going further (and speaking about wildcards) I maintain that the GUI variant is more advanced than a CLI, in that using shift-click and cmd-click one can selectively add or remove objects in the selection before executing the command (delete, modify, etc.). That is, wildcards with exceptions. Do this with a CLI (grep/awk come to my mind, but I don't think Eagle's CLI is that advanced ;-).

     

    Eagle supports tooltips, just hover the mouse over a GUI element to

    show the name of the command. Strange you didn't find that, it's

    standard on all GUIs.

    Of course, but who ever look at tooltips? One simply clicks the button and it's done. Tooltips appear only after a delay.

     

    simply because there are no scroll bars unless you zoom in. This

    behavior is incorrect, the content's size must remain unchanged and

     

    That's simply not true. There is no common standard about that. (Maybe

    there should, but I wouldn't consider that as the biggest problem in

    Eagle)

    You're right, this is not a big problem with Eagle, but it is however true. Just start Eagle with a Schematic or Layout editor open and without zooming in, try to resize the window. When Eagle first opens a file, it displays it as "zoom all". As long as you don't zoom in, everytime you try to resize the editor window, the content will be also resized and no scroll bars will appear. After zooming in, everything is back to normal.

     

    are you telling people that you want to use a CAD program with a

    multi-touch display and your fingers? Without mouse? Without CLI?

    Not only that, but I already do this! In this project I used the CLI only two or three times (after being exasperated with the CUT/DELETE buttons) and the mouse probably 30% of the time. Everything else I've done with the trackpad. If you would have told me this two years ago, I wouldn't believe it either. You get a feeling how far these multitouch trackpads came, only after using one for a while. There are many possible gestures and after a while they become so natural you do them automatically. Sadly, Eagle does not support many of them, beacause they by-passed the OS, otherwise all gestures would have been automagically supported (in particular I am missing the horizontal scroll and the zoom-in/out gestures).

     

    Best regards,

     

    Lix

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago in reply to lix

    Element 14 User wrote on Wed, 09 November 2011 15:08

    > Operations performed on

    > multiple objects are sorely missing (maybe

    > > they are possible within the CLI, but this is not the point).

    >

    > you didn't find the GROUP command? It's in plain sight image

    Yes, I've even used it, but I guess we have different ideas about

    multiple selection. Please refer to the example I gave: how would you

    modify all pin lenghts of an IC with 24 pins using the GROUP command?

     

     

    OK, it's easy.

     

    Pin length is defined in symbol so open up library editor, select Symbols,

    pick the particular symbol form the list, and click OK.  You should see the

    symbol in question now.

     

    Makes sure pin layer is on--you can't edit a pin if it's not visible.

    Select group command.  Draw a box around all the pins (or you could use

    multi-click polygon selection to get a subset of pins).  Now I'd type in

    "cha len short" in the command line and hit enter, right-click to apply

    command to group and voila, done.

     

    Some assumptions:

     

    1)  I use EAGLE every day and know all the commands so I can type things

    much quicker for commands like this.  You could just as easily click on

    change command button, select length from list, and then middle from the

    list of options.  I just like CLI better and it's faster.

     

    2)  CLI doesn't require you to type the entire command, just enough to make

    it unique.  So what I typed above is equivalent to "change length short"

    but with less letters.  When you do it enough it saves some time.

     

    3)  You don't have to remember all the options.  If you just type "cha len"

    then it will give you a poplist of the possibilities and you can select one

    with the mouse.  Or if you type the option wrong it will give you the list

    too.

     

    4)  I have applied a set command to get the EAGLE 4 behaviour of the

    right-click back.  EAGLE 5 introduced the right-click functionality because

    that is what newbies wanted who are used to modern OS's.  But that is an

    inefficient method in CAD and EAGLE is nice enough to allow users to get

    that right-click behaviour back to the way it was for more efficiency.

    Normally you'd have to hold down CTRL while right-clicking to get it to

    work.

     

    James.

     

     

    --

    James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

     

    Specializing in CadSoft EAGLE

    • Online Sales to North America

    • Electronic Design Services

    • EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

    --

    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    Am 10.11.2011 08:28, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

    Andreas Weidner schrieb:

     

    >> Am 09.11.2011 23:18, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >>>> I have applied a set command to get the EAGLE 4 behaviour of the

    >>>> right-click back.  EAGLE 5 introduced the right-click functionality

    >>>> because that is what newbies wanted who are used to modern OS's.

    >>>

    >>> I've done exactly the same thing for the same reason.

    >>

    >> Yes, me too. Right-click menus are a nice feature, especially for

    >> beginners, but I myself need them MUCH MUCH less often then I have to

    >> work with groups. Therefore: Right click manipulates groups. VERY effective.

     

    +1

     

    Tilmann

    +2

     

    --

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

     

    Joern Paschedag

     

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    Andreas Weidner schrieb:

     

    Am 09.11.2011 23:18, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >>> I have applied a set command to get the EAGLE 4 behaviour of the

    >>> right-click back.  EAGLE 5 introduced the right-click functionality

    >>> because that is what newbies wanted who are used to modern OS's.

    >>

    >> I've done exactly the same thing for the same reason.

     

    Yes, me too. Right-click menus are a nice feature, especially for

    beginners, but I myself need them MUCH MUCH less often then I have to

    work with groups. Therefore: Right click manipulates groups. VERY effective.

     

    +1

     

    Tilmann

     

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    Andreas Weidner schrieb:

     

    Am 09.11.2011 23:18, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >>> I have applied a set command to get the EAGLE 4 behaviour of the

    >>> right-click back.  EAGLE 5 introduced the right-click functionality

    >>> because that is what newbies wanted who are used to modern OS's.

    >>

    >> I've done exactly the same thing for the same reason.

     

    Yes, me too. Right-click menus are a nice feature, especially for

    beginners, but I myself need them MUCH MUCH less often then I have to

    work with groups. Therefore: Right click manipulates groups. VERY effective.

     

    +1

     

    Tilmann

     

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    Am 10.11.2011 08:28, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

    Andreas Weidner schrieb:

     

    >> Am 09.11.2011 23:18, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

    >>>> I have applied a set command to get the EAGLE 4 behaviour of the

    >>>> right-click back.  EAGLE 5 introduced the right-click functionality

    >>>> because that is what newbies wanted who are used to modern OS's.

    >>>

    >>> I've done exactly the same thing for the same reason.

    >>

    >> Yes, me too. Right-click menus are a nice feature, especially for

    >> beginners, but I myself need them MUCH MUCH less often then I have to

    >> work with groups. Therefore: Right click manipulates groups. VERY effective.

     

    +1

     

    Tilmann

    +2

     

    --

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

     

    Joern Paschedag

     

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