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EAGLE User Support (English) EAGLE GUI (5): Missing menus
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EAGLE GUI (5): Missing menus

e14 Contributor
e14 Contributor over 14 years ago

As already stated in 'EAGLE GUI(2)', the menu of EAGLE is missing LOTS

of functions. That does of course not mean that EAGLE doesn't HAVE these

functions (it does!), but just that any new user will not KNOW that

these functions exist at all, because they can nowhere be SEEN in the GUI.

 

This is not such an overwhelming problem in the schematics editor

(though there are things to do there, too), but mainly in the board

editor. There, a new user will be frustrated by the lack of the

following functions (amongst lots of others):

  1. Polygons can be drawn, but the resulting copper is never shown.

     Well, of course it is - with RATSNEST, but that is not obvious.

     The menu command to do that even IS available, but in English,

     it is called RATSNEST, and no newbie knows what THAT means,

     and in German, it's called 'Calculate airwires'. Both obviously

     have nothing to do with the copper pour. Only in CadSoft's

     programmer's minds do airwires and copper pour have things in

     common. NOT in the typical user's mind. Seeing this menu entry,

     I myself would NEVER, EVER use it to try to visualise the

     copper pour. Fortunately, this is at least properly mentioned

     in the help pages under the obvious POLYGON command. But

     remember that NOT needing to read help pages or manuals is

     always better than being forced to do so by the program.

  2. Hiding undesired airwires (e.g., for GND, +5V, -5V) is only

     possible via right-clicks on each signal, choosing PROPERTIES

     and then AIRWIRES HIDDEN. Gosh, it took years to find that

     out, and it's so complicated. Why isn't this easier? Well, of

     course it is - with RATSNEST, but that is not obvious. NO

     menu command for hiding or showing signals is available. The

     user has to

      - GUESS that this function DOES exist,

      - GUESS the command name that perhaps will do it and

      - read through all the corresponding help pages

     until, after half an eternity or reading the complete manual

     (whichever is shorter), he either arrives at the correct

     command line syntax, or (highly probable) gives up earlier.

  3. After realising that RATSNEST does THREE completely

     unconnected things (they are ONLY connected in a programmer's

     mind), which are

      - optimising airwires,

      - redisplaying the copper pour and

      - hiding and showing airwires,

     the user may be frustrated that these things are ALWAYS done

     with RATSNEST. Sometimes, a ground polygon is one of the LAST

     things one creates, so at first, there may be lots of airwires

     that are optimised with RATSNEST, and later, after routing

     everything, there will be the ground polygon that will be

     recalculated by RATSNEST. So far, so good. But on DENSE

     layouts, copper pour might become VERY dependent on small

     variations of element positions, so the ground polygon must

     be created FROM THE BEGINNING - and with all airwires still

     there. ALWAYS seeing the ground polygon is frustrating,

     because screen display is not so nice, then, and the time

     needed for polygon recalculation is even MORE frustrating

     if you just want to recalculate airwires with RATSNEST. But

     you NEED that crappy polygon, and why the heck are polygons

     and airwires always calculated at the same time? GRRRR! Well,

     of course they are NOT - with SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF, one

     can change that. Unfortunately, though being available in the

     help pages, this behaviour must be changed SO often during

     dense routing that the user types the keyboard to death with

     that syntax.

  4. Did I already mention that, in case of a calculated polygon

     whose copper pour should NOT be shown, the user will

     spectacularly FAIL to find any menu item to HIDE the

     copper pour? That's a case for the command line again.

 

Please don't misunderstand me: As I have proven lots of times, I LIKE

EAGLE's command line, because it's SO wonderful for experts. But it's a

nightmare for beginners, because you have to KNOW what you MAY type, and

how should a new user know the SYNTAX for a certain function if he

doesn't even know of the EXISTENCE of that function (because it's

missing in the GUI)?

 

Therefore: Do NOT only provide menu items for strange and mysterious

commands, but a menu item for every ACTION that the typical user might

often want to use, and name it accordingly (NOT with the command name,

but with the ACTION), so that the user may FIND it.

 

For example, I provide our students with the following (nested) buttons

in the text menu:

  - POLYGON: Calculate polygons

    which does nothing but

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST ON;

      RATSNEST;

  - POLYGON: Ripup polygons

    which does nothing but

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      DISPLAY ALL;

      RIPUP @;

      DISPLAY LAST;

  - [plus several other polygon commands to help CREATE polygons

    connected to GND]

  - RATSNEST: Calculate polygons

    which does the SAME as above, just in case somebody cannot

    remember in which text menu it resides

  - RATSNEST: Ignore polygons

    which does nothing but

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      RATSNEST;

  - AIRWIRES: Hide GND supplies

    which does something similar to

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      SET CONFIRM YES;

      RATSNEST ! GND;

      SET CONFIRM OFF;

    (But currently still with a ULP, because at that time I created

    that, the SET CONFIRM syntax was not yet invented. I will change

    this to the above syntax in the future)

  - AIRWIRES: Hide V+ supplies

    which does something like

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      SET CONFIRM YES;

      RATSNEST ! V V VCC* VDD*;

      SET CONFIRM OFF;

  - AIRWIRES: Hide V- supplies

    which does something like

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      SET CONFIRM YES;

      RATSNEST ! -V V- VEE* VSS*;

      SET CONFIRM OFF;

  - AIRWIRES: Hide all supplies

    which does something like

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      SET CONFIRM YES;

      RATSNEST ! GND V V VCC* VDD* -V V- VEE* VSS*;

      SET CONFIRM OFF;

  -

  - AIRWIRES: Show all signals

    which does something like

      SET POLYGON_RATSNEST OFF;

      RATSNEST *;

 

This way, the user

  5. SEES that such a thing is possible,

  6. can use it IMMEDIATELY for common cases, and

  7. look the syntax up further if those predefined cases are

     just not enough for the design.

 

And YES, the above is not optimal, because the previous state of

POLYGON_RATSNEST is not restored (I don't know how to do this currently)

etc. But it's still FAR better than having NOTHING!

 

So, just for fun, a screenshot of SOME of the missing items from the

German 'Tools' menu of the board editor (I used a different distribution

than mentioned above to get rid of the strange word 'ratsnest'). All of

these items can be VERY easily included (the syntax is already THERE -

it must only be included in the GUI), with ONE exception:

   - Hide/Show signals...

This would show a (not yet existing) dialog containing a list of ALL

available signals and let the user select which of these to show or

hide. Of course, THAT would need additional thinking and a bit of work,

but the above stuff is REALLY primitive to implement. As should be tons

of other already existing functions that are NOT visible in the GUI yet.

 

Andreas Weidner

 

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  • e14 Contributor
    e14 Contributor over 14 years ago

    Ref filled polygons.

     

    In 2011, where games does millions of polygons pr second, it also makes

    little sense if these arent filled instantly.

     

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  • kcadsoft
    kcadsoft over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    On 11/27/11 18:01, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    Ref filled polygons.

     

    In 2011, where games does millions of polygons pr second, it also makes

    little sense if these arent filled instantly.

     

    The time consuming part with signal polygons is the

    actual processing. This means that every pad, wire, rectangle

    and other objects must be "subtracted" from a signal polygon.

    This involves a lot of calculations - and that takes some time.

     

    Klaus Schmidinger

    --

    _______________________________________________________________

     

    Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

    CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

    Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

    D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

    _______________________________________________________________

     

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  • kcadsoft
    kcadsoft over 14 years ago in reply to e14 Contributor

    On 11/27/11 18:01, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    Ref filled polygons.

     

    In 2011, where games does millions of polygons pr second, it also makes

    little sense if these arent filled instantly.

     

    The time consuming part with signal polygons is the

    actual processing. This means that every pad, wire, rectangle

    and other objects must be "subtracted" from a signal polygon.

    This involves a lot of calculations - and that takes some time.

     

    Klaus Schmidinger

    --

    _______________________________________________________________

     

    Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

    CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

    Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

    D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

    _______________________________________________________________

     

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