View rotation and mirror

Reece R. Pollack schrieb:

There are times when it would be very handy to be able to rotate the

view of a PCB layout or schematic. I don't mean by changing the layout

or schematic itself, but rotate how the layout or schematic is VIEWED.

 

It'd also be handy to be able to flip a PCB over so you're viewing it

from the bottom, rather than the top.

 

This is nothing more than coordinate translation when drawing the screen

and interpreting click locations. It wouldn't change anything stored in

the schematic or board file, so the effects in the code should be

relatively localized.

Seemingly you don't know how often (and for how long) this has been

requested before - unfortunately without responses so far.

Tilmann

Seemingly you don't know how often (and for how long) this has been

requested before - unfortunately without responses so far.

 

Tilmann

 

So true. Still want it...

Markus

Seemingly you don't know how often (and for how long) this has been

requested before - unfortunately without responses so far.

 

Tilmann

 

So true. Still want it...

Markus

Am 27.08.2012 08:58, schrieb Markus Rudolf:

>> Seemingly you don't know how often (and for how long) this has been

>> requested before - unfortunately without responses so far.

>> Tilmann

So true. Still want it...

Me too. Possibly easy to implement - wondering why it was ignored for so

long....

Stefan

Me too. Possibly easy to implement - wondering why it was ignored for so

long....

 

Stefan

 

Because the more people want it, the more it is ignored. That's at least

my impression

Markus

Op Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:28:19 +0200 schreef Markus Rudolf 

<user@domain.invalid>:

>> Me too. Possibly easy to implement - wondering why it was ignored for so

>> long....

>>

>> Stefan

>>

Because the more people want it, the more it is ignored. That's at least 

my impression

 

Markus

Well, at least is it not on the "EAGLE Feature Survey" that Jorge Garcia 

posted on Google doc's. So it's probably not high on Cadsoft's "what to 

implement next" list.

BTW, what do others make of that survey? I'm glad that at least Eagle for 

smartphones is on the list! Doing serious layout work on my phone has been 

high on my personal wish list! duhh...

Richard

Hi Richard and others,

On 08/27/12 12:50, Richard Herman wrote:

Op Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:28:19 +0200 schreef Markus Rudolf

<user@domain.invalid>:

 

>>> Me too. Possibly easy to implement - wondering why it was ignored for so

>>> long....

>>>

>>> Stefan

>>>

>> Because the more people want it, the more it is ignored. That's at

>> least my impression

>>

>> Markus

 

Well, at least is it not on the "EAGLE Feature Survey" that Jorge Garcia

posted on Google doc's. So it's probably not high on Cadsoft's "what to

implement next" list.

 

well, Jorge's survey is based on what people want.

To my knowledge there were many other things mentioned, but not view rotation or mirror.

A few points /questions:

- Just if you are not aware: There is the print preview,

   that allows to see the drawing rotated or mirrored. If you just want to see it without

   editing this should be quite helpful.

- What's the advantage of editing the drawing in mirrored or rotated state ?

   It may be good to get a realistic impresion of how the board looks from behind or side.

   On the other hand you'll have trouble reading the texts.

We have doubts if this makes so much sense. Pls. let us know in which cases it makes sense.

Walter Spermann

BTW, what do others make of that survey? I'm glad that at least Eagle

for smartphones is on the list! Doing serious layout work on my phone

has been high on my personal wish list! duhh...

 

Richard

--

-

Walter Spermann

Softwareentwicklung

CadSoft Computer GmbH

Pleidolfweg 15

84568 Pleiskirchen

Tel.: 08635/6989-10

www.cadsoft.de

-

Registergericht: Amtsgericht Traunstein HRB 5573

Geschäftsführer: Thomas Liratsch

-

On 8/27/12 8:30 AM, Walter Spermann wrote:

  - What's the advantage of editing the drawing in mirrored or rotated state ?

    It may be good to get a realistic impresion of how the board looks from behind or side.

    On the other hand you'll have trouble reading the texts.

We have doubts if this makes so much sense. Pls. let us know in which cases it makes sense.

Suppose you are debugging a real, physical board. You need to know where

to probe or make modifications, and you have to mentally mirror the

board in your mind between what you hold in your hand and what you see

on the screen. That's when errors happen.

Why not just print out the bottom layer reversed?

1) It wastes paper and ink, which cost real money, wastes time, and is

impossible to do if you are working somewhere other than where you have

a printer

2) It doesn't show inner layers easily (no alpha blending on paper!)

And as for "reading the texts", that's one of the reasons to mirror the

bottom layer! Right now all of the texts on the bottom layer are

mirrored, so if I'm looking for capacitor C99 I may well

see C66 (mirrored) and think I found it.

 

Walter Spermann

 

>> BTW, what do others make of that survey? I'm glad that at least Eagle

>> for smartphones is on the list! Doing serious layout work on my phone

>> has been high on my personal wish list! duhh...

Agreed...the questions on the survey were of concern. Support for

smartphones?! Really?! How about Twitter integration! Let the world know

that you just added a resistor.

The survey questions did not seem well-aligned with the long-standing

feature requests. Plus, it only let you select one out of all the features.

Andrew.

>>

>> Richard

>

"Richard Herman" <bebop@xs4all.remove.nl> wrote:

Op Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:28:19 +0200 schreef Markus Rudolf  <user@domain.invalid>:

 

>>> Me too. Possibly easy to implement - wondering why it was ignored for so

>>> long....

>>>

>>> Stefan

>>>

>> Because the more people want it, the more it is ignored. That's at least

>>  > my impression

>>

>> Markus

 

Well, at least is it not on the "EAGLE Feature Survey" that Jorge Garcia

posted on Google doc's. So it's probably not high on Cadsoft's "what to

implement next" list.

 

BTW, what do others make of that survey? I'm glad that at least Eagle for

smartphones is on the list! Doing serious layout work on my phone has

been  high on my personal wish list! duhh...

 

Richard

I have a hard time imagining 3d view without rotation an mirror, so guess

what I picked..

Am 27.08.2012 14:30, schrieb Walter Spermann:

  - Just if you are not aware: There is the print preview,

    that allows to see the drawing rotated or mirrored. If you just want to see it without

    editing this should be quite helpful.

Is a pain. I just want a quick view from the bottom to see if the

(otherwise mirrored) silkscreen looks nicely and is aligned proper.

I tend to have silkscreen always on both sides and label every

conenctor's pad with the signal name and such for making debugging a

board easier.

First thing that always comes up in this discussions is "theres an ULP

for that" (like for any basic function a CAD system should have as a

builtin command caugh), but that modifies the board's objects /

datastructures and this cannot be meant like always undo/redo stuff.

Plus its slow and doesnt work proper with multilayer boards as i found out.

  - What's the advantage of editing the drawing in mirrored or rotated state ?

    It may be good to get a realistic impresion of how the board looks from behind or side.

    On the other hand you'll have trouble reading the texts.

We have doubts if this makes so much sense. Pls. let us know in which cases it makes sense.

As stated above, I use would use it for fine tuning silkscreen and such.

Right now I am really printing out mirrored 1:1 copies on our Laserjet

and do the manual iteration. That sucks and wastes resources and my time.

Plus I really don't see any difficulties implementing that in an

hopefully object-oriented programmed CAD Software on a low level for

drawing the primitives like lines and such. It's basically just a factor

of -1 on the proper positions in the code.

I would not even care if the mirrored view is just a view which I cannot

edit anything, but just with a hotkey flip the view back and forth and

Zoom and Pan.

Of course if this can be done without to much trouble, count me in....

Markus

Am 27.08.2012 12:50, schrieb Richard Herman:

Well, at least is it not on the "EAGLE Feature Survey" that Jorge Garcia

posted on Google doc's. So it's probably not high on Cadsoft's "what to

implement next" list.

Wasn't actually aware of such a survey, and I'm following the newsgroup

on a regular base. Anyone got a link? Then I will add the mirror feature

Markus

Op Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:41:40 +0200 schreef Markus Rudolf 

<user@domain.invalid>:

Am 27.08.2012 12:50, schrieb Richard Herman:

 

>> Well, at least is it not on the "EAGLE Feature Survey" that Jorge Garcia

>> posted on Google doc's. So it's probably not high on Cadsoft's "what to

>> implement next" list.

 

Wasn't actually aware of such a survey, and I'm following the newsgroup 

on a regular base. Anyone got a link? Then I will add the mirror feature 

 

Markus

 

It was announced in (at least) the eagle.userchat.eng group a couple of 

days ago.

Here's the link:

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dEF4MWdPVXgxNjdHMk9aWE5wOTNyQmc6MQ

Although someone in that thread claimed the link didn't work for him, it 

works fine for me.

Richard

Hi,

On 08/27/12 21:37, Markus Rudolf wrote:

Am 27.08.2012 14:30, schrieb Walter Spermann:

 

>>   - Just if you are not aware: There is the print preview,

>>     that allows to see the drawing rotated or mirrored. If you just

>> want to see it without

>>     editing this should be quite helpful.

 

Is a pain. I just want a quick view from the bottom to see if the

(otherwise mirrored) silkscreen looks nicely and is aligned proper.

 

I tend to have silkscreen always on both sides and label every

conenctor's pad with the signal name and such for making debugging a

board easier.

 

First thing that always comes up in this discussions is "theres an ULP

for that" (like for any basic function a CAD system should have as a

builtin command caugh), but that modifies the board's objects /

datastructures and this cannot be meant like always undo/redo stuff.

 

Plus its slow and doesnt work proper with multilayer boards as i found out.

 

>>   - What's the advantage of editing the drawing in mirrored or rotated

>> state ?

>>     It may be good to get a realistic impresion of how the board looks

>> from behind or side.

>>     On the other hand you'll have trouble reading the texts.

>> We have doubts if this makes so much sense. Pls. let us know in which

>> cases it makes sense.

 

As stated above, I use would use it for fine tuning silkscreen and such.

Right now I am really printing out mirrored 1:1 copies on our Laserjet

and do the manual iteration. That sucks and wastes resources and my time.

 

OK, we put this on our todo list. I can't make commitments when it will be implemented.

There are many more wishes from customers (like import/export, many other GUI oriented and

informatioal features), and our development staff is very limited.

Plus I really don't see any difficulties implementing that in an

hopefully object-oriented programmed CAD Software on a low level for

drawing the primitives like lines and such. It's basically just a factor

of -1 on the proper positions in the code.

Well, it's not as simple as that. At least there is a GUI extension necessary for that,

the EAGLE command syntax needs to be extended and some other stuff.

 

I would not even care if the mirrored view is just a view which I cannot

edit anything, but just with a hotkey flip the view back and forth and

Zoom and Pan.

 

Of course if this can be done without to much trouble, count me in....

 

Markus

 

--

-

Walter Spermann

Softwareentwicklung

CadSoft Computer GmbH

Pleidolfweg 15

84568 Pleiskirchen

Tel.: 08635/6989-10

www.cadsoft.de

-

Registergericht: Amtsgericht Traunstein HRB 5573

Geschäftsführer: Thomas Liratsch

-