Grid Offset

John van Zijl schrieb:

I am missing a possibility to enter an offset or zero point to the

grid I selected, With the different Pitches and the mix of inches and

metric I often have to switch and it would realy help if I could

switch the offset to.

Many of us miss that possibility. This wish is so old that it already

has a very long beard - yet it has not been recognized by CadSoft,

though this one should be really very easy to implement.

Tilmann

Hi,

On 02/14/13 23:37, John van Zijl wrote:

I am missing a possibility to enter an offset or zero point to the grid I selected, With the different Pitches and the mix of inches and metric I often have to switch and it would realy help if I could switch the offset to.

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

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the MARK command is not sufficient for this ?

Walter Spermann

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Walter Spermann

Softwareentwicklung

CadSoft Computer GmbH

Pleidolfweg 15

84568 Pleiskirchen

Tel.: 08635/6989-10

www.cadsoft.de

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Registergericht: Amtsgericht Traunstein HRB 5573

Geschäftsführer: Thomas Liratsch

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Walter Spermann schrieb:

I am missing a possibility to enter an offset or zero point to the

grid I selected, With the different Pitches and the mix of inches

and metric I often have to switch and it would realy help if I

could switch the offset to.

 

the MARK command is not sufficient for this ?

NO. It affects only display and allows for "relative" coordinate entry,

but it does not modify the grid "snap" for any mouse movement.

Tilmann

Am 18.02.2013 13:53, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

the MARK command is not sufficient for this ?

 

NO. It affects only display and allows for "relative" coordinate entry,

but it does not modify the grid "snap" for any mouse movement.

The current grid behaviour has at least two problems that get

increasingly annoying with 'modern' electronic components:

  1. As stated above, the grid should have a selectable origin, so

     that the snapping works properly.

     This is not SO important for the package editor, but for the

     'real' board: There, one sometimes has mechanical restrictions

     like 'this part MUST go here, and those LEDs should each have

     0.1" distance from THIS point which, unfortunately, is NOT

     on the grid'. It IS possible to solve this problem now, but

     only with a piece of paper and manual coordinate entry.

  2. It should be possible to have a DIFFERENT grid distance for

     horizontal and vertical directions.

     This is not SO important for the board editor, but for the

     package editor: Though I thoroughly HATE components that have

     a millimeter grid in one direction and inches in the other,

     such bloody components DO exist. And components with different

     inch grids in both directions are not SO rare. At the moment,

     this can only be solved by manually switching between grid

     settings a thousand times.

I suggest the following:

  3. Introduce three additional keywords for the GRID command:

      - VERT: Works like the ALT keyword, only that following

        characters change the VERTICAL grid settings

      - HORZ: Ditto, only with the HORIZONTAL settings

      - ORIGIN: Must be followed by a point (x,y)

     If none of these is given in the command, it behaves just

     as usual. Examples:

      - GRID Inch 0.1 Lines On;  [sets 0.1" in BOTH directions]

      - GRID Horz Inch 0.1;      [sets 0.1" horizontally AND

                                  LEAVES THE VERTICAL GRID

                                  UNCHANGED]

      - GRID Horz Inch 0.1 Vert mm 3.75;

      - GRID Origin (1inch 2mm);

      - GRID Origin (1inch 2mm) Horz Inch 0.1 Vert mm 3.75 Lines On;

     The only things that I don't know at the moment is a) how to

     define the ALT grid horizontally or vertically and b) what to

     do with the multiplier.

  4. Lines/dots and on/off should always work for BOTH directions.

  5. The grid dialog should be changed accordingly. I'll think about

     this and mail you again.

Andreas Weidner

Tilmann Reh wrote:

I am missing a possibility to enter an offset or zero point to the

grid I selected, With the different Pitches and the mix of inches and

metric I often have to switch and it would realy help if I could

switch the offset to.

>Many of us miss that possibility. This wish is so old that it already

>has a very long beard - yet it has not been recognized by CadSoft,

>though this one should be really very easy to implement.

+1

Old Eagle users know worarounds, new users might go away silently.

Oliver

--

Oliver Betz, Munich

despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:

Regarding point 1, even if the grid had a selectable origin, I'm not so sure it would help in laying out components on a board,

because you would still need to perform a back-of-envelope calculation, to work out that origin.

Today, if I know I need to place a component at a specific point, I manually type the co-ords. I try to make my life easier by

ensuring that the component origin is at the correct location, to minimise/simplify the calculation.

Here is an example component (it is a connector), where when I designed the component pad layout, I placed the origin

to be the edge of the component (i.e. the end of the connector which I want to be on the edge of the PCB). The origin is shown

circled in yellow here.

Then, when I want to place it at an exact position on the PCB, it is really easy. I can just click on the part and type in the

exact co-ords (e.g. if my board is 100x100mm, then I can type (say) (0 50) and then I know it is exactly placed on the

edge of the board as desired, centered at the desired location.

There could be other use-cases for the selectable origin, but for placing components at a specified location, I have so far

found the manual co-ord method the easiest to be honest.

It is not so much a problem of placing parts, I agree manualy editing the position to a grid isn't a lot of work. The main pain is in routing, when you have mixed metric and mil parts or parts need to be on a specific location. Breaking out of the parts would be much faster if I could determine the origine of the grid. I am tired of calculating join points of mil and metric grids, or routing at small grids to have such join points in my grid.

Cheers

John

On 02/18/13 14:41, Andreas Weidner wrote:

Am 18.02.2013 13:53, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

the MARK command is not sufficient for this ?

 

NO. It affects only display and allows for "relative" coordinate entry,

but it does not modify the grid "snap" for any mouse movement.

 

The current grid behaviour has at least two problems that get

increasingly annoying with 'modern' electronic components:

1. As stated above, the grid should have a selectable origin, so

    that the snapping works properly.

    This is not SO important for the package editor, but for the

    'real' board: There, one sometimes has mechanical restrictions

    like 'this part MUST go here, and those LEDs should each have

    0.1" distance from THIS point which, unfortunately, is NOT

    on the grid'. It IS possible to solve this problem now, but

    only with a piece of paper and manual coordinate entry.

2. It should be possible to have a DIFFERENT grid distance for

    horizontal and vertical directions.

    This is not SO important for the board editor, but for the

    package editor: Though I thoroughly HATE components that have

    a millimeter grid in one direction and inches in the other,

    such bloody components DO exist. And components with different

    inch grids in both directions are not SO rare. At the moment,

    this can only be solved by manually switching between grid

    settings a thousand times.

 

I suggest the following:

3. Introduce three additional keywords for the GRID command:

     - VERT: Works like the ALT keyword, only that following

       characters change the VERTICAL grid settings

     - HORZ: Ditto, only with the HORIZONTAL settings

     - ORIGIN: Must be followed by a point (x,y)

    If none of these is given in the command, it behaves just

    as usual. Examples:

     - GRID Inch 0.1 Lines On;  [sets 0.1" in BOTH directions]

     - GRID Horz Inch 0.1;      [sets 0.1" horizontally AND

                                 LEAVES THE VERTICAL GRID

                                 UNCHANGED]

     - GRID Horz Inch 0.1 Vert mm 3.75;

     - GRID Origin (1inch 2mm);

     - GRID Origin (1inch 2mm) Horz Inch 0.1 Vert mm 3.75 Lines On;

    The only things that I don't know at the moment is a) how to

    define the ALT grid horizontally or vertically and b) what to

    do with the multiplier.

4. Lines/dots and on/off should always work for BOTH directions.

5. The grid dialog should be changed accordingly. I'll think about

    this and mail you again.

 

Andreas Weidner

In many cases the alternate grid should also be helpful.

You can have different units for both grids, but I agree, such extensions

sound reasonable. Thanks !

Walter Spermann

--

-

Walter Spermann

Softwareentwicklung

CadSoft Computer GmbH

Pleidolfweg 15

84568 Pleiskirchen

Tel.: 08635/6989-10

www.cadsoft.de

-

Registergericht: Amtsgericht Traunstein HRB 5573

Geschäftsführer: Thomas Liratsch

-

On 02/18/2013 08:41 AM, Andreas Weidner wrote:

Am 18.02.2013 13:53, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

the MARK command is not sufficient for this ?

 

NO. It affects only display and allows for "relative" coordinate entry,

but it does not modify the grid "snap" for any mouse movement.

 

The current grid behaviour has at least two problems that get

increasingly annoying with 'modern' electronic components:

1. As stated above, the grid should have a selectable origin, so

    that the snapping works properly.

    This is not SO important for the package editor, but for the

    'real' board: There, one sometimes has mechanical restrictions

    like 'this part MUST go here,

For exact placement of parts, I always use the command line.

    MOVE R1 (101 123.456);

    Or click move, then the part, then type in (101 123.456);

and those LEDs should each have

    0.1" distance from THIS point which, unfortunately, is NOT

    on the grid'. It IS possible to solve this problem now, but

    only with a piece of paper and manual coordinate entry.

Try:

    MARK (101 123.4);

    MOVE LED1 (R100 0);

    MOVE LED2 (R200 0);

The "R" in the coordinates specify a coordinate relative to the mark.

In this example, LED1 would be placed 0.1 units to the right of the

mark.  Polar coordinates are also available.

2. It should be possible to have a DIFFERENT grid distance for

    horizontal and vertical directions.

    This is not SO important for the board editor, but for the

    package editor: Though I thoroughly HATE components that have

    a millimeter grid in one direction and inches in the other,

    such bloody components DO exist. And components with different

    inch grids in both directions are not SO rare. At the moment,

    this can only be solved by manually switching between grid

    settings a thousand times.

Not a bad idea.  I usually route the last leg from the SMD pad to a wire

rather than from the wire to the SMD pad.  The latter always leaves an

obfuscated short segment from the grid to the center of the pad.  If you

route from the pad, this short segment is at the other end of the wire

segment.

Your enhancement request deserves consideration.  I just point out that

there are ways around it - until it can be included in a release.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck

Am 21.02.2013 14:12, schrieb Chuck Huber:

For exact placement of parts, I always use the command line.

Yes. I'm a BIG fan of the command line (it's ONE reason why I use EAGLE

and not some other software).

BUT you still have to calculate things like "horizontal three times

3.75mm, wait a moment, errrrrm, and vertical five times 0.15inch." Of

course it is possible, but with a nice grid that would be much easier.

Andreas Weidner