If you have questions about CadSoft EAGLE, please click here to post your question!
If you'd rather browse other member's questions you can read the CadSoft EAGLE Forums for past questions and answers. Enjoy!
I'm a young engineer with extensive experience working on EAGLE. My interests include Power Supply design and LED solid state lighting, and I'm always impressed by a well designed PCB.
If not already, you'll need to  or 
to ask your question. Otherwise, click reply below. |
Jorge,
Can you please refer me to a comprehensive manual(.pdf preferred) for EAGLE Professional 6.5 in English?
The ones I have been able to get are either incomplete, or are written in German.
I appreciate having the community here for help but I am not the one to bother people thus opting to study a well-written OEM guide.
It has been many years since I have used EAGLE for any work project. I am almost ready to give up on EAGLE and buy Orcad which I was company trained to utilize.
All I need is a complete guide.
Thank you in advance,
Emjay
Emjay: You have seen the manual PDFs that are installed with Eagle, at [Eagle Install Directory]\doc\manual_en.pdf, and also tutorial_en.pdf?
My apologies. The version is 6.3 not 6.5. And yes I have. The technical writing is not coherently structured to seamlessly flow from process to process in detail.
Thanks,
Emjay
Jorge Garcia wrote:
I'm sure it's the same with other users who don't use the Element-14
forum interface. I participate in the forum using the NNTP reader in
Thunderbird. The interface on Element-14 I guess just assigns messages
from the NNTP server to be Cadsoft Guest.
If anybody has found anyway around that I would be more than happy to
know how to do it.
I don't know for certain, but I think somehow there might be some kind of coordination between the EAGLE Central account and the Element14 account. When I post from either place, it seems to be correctly attributed. (For example, I posted this from the EAGLE Central site: Re: Essay on the Eagle Interface You can tell by the signature block where it came from.) You might contact James to see if that's it. (NOTE: I don't access the NNTP groups directly.)
I'd love to see a solution to posting lists and source code snippets so that they can be read on both/either Element14 and EAGLE Central. For example, I posted these Element14 links from Element14:
Element14: Re: Essay on the Eagle Interface
But nothing showed up on the NNTP feed:
EAGLE Central Forums: eagle.suggest.eng » Essay on the Eagle Interface
Same for source code snippets. Github gists look good on Element14, but don't seem to get propagated to the NNTP groups...
On 4/8/2014 8:53 PM, Graham Wideman wrote:
Emjay:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may
have been from him.
Hi Graham,
I'm sure it's the same with other users who don't use the Element-14
forum interface. I participate in the forum using the NNTP reader in
Thunderbird. The interface on Element-14 I guess just assigns messages
from the NNTP server to be Cadsoft Guest.
If anybody has found anyway around that I would be more than happy to
know how to do it.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Now I asked if the resizing of the grid will affect the component's
size? which I never got a response back from Chuck.
I appreciate dealing with you on this subject being you are kind enough
to respond when you can.
I built the component using 1 mil increments on the symbol instead of
keeping it at 0.1". Chuck's instruction set is clear I only need to know
will it affect the size of the component.
I also need to know why is it that when building a component one must
use 0.1" when like in my case the component is a micro-smd which the
package measures in millimeters and the pads measure in mils, which is
why I used mils?
I built the component's pads using mils(as the pads are 9x12mils in
dimension) but I am instructed by Chuck to built the entire symbol using
0.1" which doesn't make sense to me.
Hi Emjay,
I hope you're doing well. Chuck's suggestion is correct and here's the why.
As far as the schematic symbol goes, its not necessary for it to match
the physical parameters of the real component. The goal with the symbol
is to aid understanding of the design.
In the schematic the 0.1"(2.54mm) grid recommendation comes up because
all of the symbols in EAGLE's default libraries are made to that grid,
so if you use a different grid spacing the pins aren't going to line
properly which will make connections almost impossible. In order for a
connection to be valid in the schematic nets must start and end on very
exact points if you're off by a hair the connection won't be defined. By
using a 0.1" grid you insure that your pins are always on grid and your
connections are reliable.
The grid in the schematic has no bearing on the grid in the layout. For
the layout you need to use whatever grid is convenient and the package
you use for a component must match it's physical parameters precisely in
order to make a useable board.
As you can see the grid in the schematic will have no effect on the
package size so your layout will still be accurate sized even if your
schematic symbols are larger for the sake of readibility and understanding.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Cadsoft Support
Thank you Graham. Much appreciated. I have the entire schematic done with exception of this one issue so porting it over to OrCad will not be a problem.
My bank card is out with Cadence(Industry leader) on the phone. Should have known better dealing with a German company & its product. I support American companies. Much appreciated Graham. Take care and have good one!
~Emjay
TL;DR
Noone's hand feeds me anything!
Take your ego back to your imaginary 'kingdom' where it rules dude. This is real life where you don't count.
~Emjay
On 04/08/2014 06:58 PM, Emjay Ahday wrote:
I am building the COMPONENT for the SCHEMATIC being the COMPONENT is not
listed in EAGLE's library.
Hi Emjay,
Perhaps there's a terminology difference between OrCad and Eagle. I
used to use OrCad back in the late 80's and early 90's, and you're right
- components are placed on schematics.
In Eagle, the term "component" is not used but instead replaces it with
"device".
SCHEMATICS ARE COMPRISED OF INDIVIDUAL SMD or
STANDARD THROUGH HOLE COMPONENTS.
Uhmmm... not really. Schematics are composed of symbols. There's
nothing on a schematic that would elude to the physical implementation
of the said device - it's merely a symbol. Transistor (vertical bar,
arrow and lines), resistor (zig-zag lines), capacitor (parallel lines),
etc. They're all symbols. It's not until you work on the
implementation of the design that you start dealing with SMD or TH packages.
In Eagle, a device contains (usually) one symbol, like the zig-zag lines
of a resistor symbol, and one or more packages where each package
represents layout of the device. It could be SMD, or TH, or numerous
sizes of both. It is the /device/ that ties a /symbol/ to one or more
/packages/. Thus, when you place a device on your schematic, you also
choose a package that will be used later in the board layout. One can
also change the package of a device without changing the symbol.
I don't know why "device" was used instead of "component". Perhaps is
something related to German/English translation. Perhaps it's because
the former is a more generic term. Note that some devices do not have
anything installed. Shorts, plated mounting holes for chassis grounds,
board-implemented capacitors and inductors for RF designs, and tabs for
card edge connectors are all devices that have no installed components.
As such, the term "component" would misrepresent what they are.
Try using a dictionary if you are that ignorant of the English
language.(below you will see the term COMPONENT used)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
I will just buy OrCad which is most familiar to me being trained in it.
Perhaps that would be best for you. One must consider the cost of the
software and support for it, and weigh that against the cost of learning
new software.
Also for future references, when you see someone waiting for a response
from someone who was DIRECTLY ADDRESSED, DON'T ANSWER IN PLACE OF THAT
PERSON!
I would suggest that if you want a response from an individual, send
that individual an email. By posting in a public support forum, you
implicitly are soliciting any of the forum readers to provide help on a
volunteer basis.
I would also pose that yelling accomplishes nothing other than to
alienate yourself. There's an old saying related to this... something
like "biting the hand that feeds you".
HTH,
- Chuck
On 09/04/14 01:53, Graham Wideman wrote:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may
have been from him.
No, it wasn't Jorge, it was me. But if Emjay is too pig-headed to accept
help from anyone else WHEN POSTING IN A PUBLIC FORUM and finds
emphatic correction to be too painful to respond in any way but rudely,
then I fear there's no hope for him.
Emjay:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may have been from him.
Sounds like you are frustrated with the answer, but it contains the key that may solve your situation.
The central point is that, like most EDA software, Eagle distinguishes between the component's symbol used on the schematic, versus the physical shape of the component and its required pads or holes and the space that it occupies on the PCB.
Eagle calls the schematic symbol "Symbol", the PCB shape "Package", and the combination of the two is called "Device" (which I think of as "component", don't know about you.)
The schematic symbols often bear no shape relationship to the physical package. The schematic works best set to a large grid size (say 0.1 inch), with the schematic symbols defined in the library to have connection pins on that 0.1 inch grid. Because Eagle Schematic can only snap wires to the grid locations, if you have library symbols that don't abide by that grid it's difficult to impossible to connect wires to them. If instead you use a fine grid in Schematic editor, that would permit you to connect wires to symbols with odd pin positions, but it's too easy to position a wire near a pin, thinking it's connected, when actually it's a bit off.
Matters are different in PCB, because we have to abide by the physical size of packages and the position of their pins. So in PCB, we would use a finer grid (and the packages in the library likewise). Connecting is not a problem because that's already defined in the schematic, and represented on the PCB by airwires until routed.
From the discussion so far it sounds like you are trying to create a library _device_ (in Eagle terms) whose _symbol_ (for use in Schematic editor) is a dimensionally accurate picture of a micro-smd package. Of course, you could do that if you want, but most people would draw the accurate micro-smd _package_ for use only on the PCB, and for the Schematic _symbol_ draw a generic rectangle with pins positioned on the 0.1 inch grid.
As a related matter: It is in the _symbol_ that you would name the pins with function names (such as VCC, GND, D0, D1 or whatever). It is in the _package_ that you name the pads (1, 2, 3...). Finally, it is in the _device_ that you associate one or more packages with a symbol, and for each package list which pad associates with which pin.
Hope that helps.
I am not conflating anything. Been building schematics and COMPONENTS by hand for over 40 years since before EDA desktop software was available so I know my terminology very well. You are the one who is confused or just plain ignorant first for answering for someone you are not, secondly, for not understanding.
I am building the COMPONENT for the SCHEMATIC being the COMPONENT is not listed in EAGLE's library. SCHEMATICS ARE COMPRISED OF INDIVIDUAL SMD or STANDARD THROUGH HOLE COMPONENTS.
Try using a dictionary if you are that ignorant of the English language.(below you will see the term COMPONENT used)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
I will just buy OrCad which is most familiar to me being trained in it. Try working on your people skills novice, for you sure are socially ignorant.
Good day.
P.S.
Also for future references, when you see someone waiting for a response from someone who was DIRECTLY ADDRESSED, DON'T ANSWER IN PLACE OF THAT PERSON!
I asked JORGE whom you are not!
I await JORGE not you!
~Emjay
On 08/04/14 22:20, Emjay Ahday wrote:
I built the component using 1 mil increments on the symbol instead of
keeping it at 0.1". Chuck's instruction set is clear I only need to know
will it affect the size of the component.
Yes, this is the rule for SCHEMATIC SYMBOLS
I also need to know why is it that when building a component one must
use 0.1"
... FOR THE SCHEMATIC SYMBOL ...
when like in my case the component
... PACKAGE ...
is a micro-smd which the
package measures in millimeters and the pads measure in mils, which is
why I used mils?
You are conflating two different things. All PCB design software (and
most PCBs designed by hand in the old days) begins with a schematic
representation of the circuit from a functional perspective. Then you
take this and create a board layout using the physical characteristics
of the components.
I built the component's pads using mils(as the pads are 9x12mils in
dimension) but I am instructed by Chuck to built the entire symbol using
0.1" which doesn't make sense to me.
It makes perfect sense if you get the terminology clear.
A "symbol" is the mnemonic representation (for example a transistor
symbol with a thick vertical bar, an arrow and two other lines) of the
component for use on the schematic.
A "package" is the dimensioned representation of the physical component
placement on the PCB.
A "device" is a grouping of one (or more) symbols to one or more
possible packages for a family of components. For example, a 7400 has
four NAND gates and comes in DIP, SOIC and possibly other packages.
Seems rather odd, but then again I am re-familiarizing myself with EAGLE
not having worked with it in over 12 years being company trained in
OrCad.
But OrCad also has a clear - in fact even more explicit - distinction
between schematics and boards, so you should be familiar with the
concept that schematic symbols do not look like the physical package and
are not related to it in size.
On 08/04/14 22:20, Emjay Ahday wrote:
I built the component using 1 mil increments on the symbol instead of
keeping it at 0.1". Chuck's instruction set is clear I only need to know
will it affect the size of the component.
Yes, this is the rule for SCHEMATIC SYMBOLS
I also need to know why is it that when building a component one must
use 0.1"
... FOR THE SCHEMATIC SYMBOL ...
when like in my case the component
... PACKAGE ...
is a micro-smd which the
package measures in millimeters and the pads measure in mils, which is
why I used mils?
You are conflating two different things. All PCB design software (and
most PCBs designed by hand in the old days) begins with a schematic
representation of the circuit from a functional perspective. Then you
take this and create a board layout using the physical characteristics
of the components.
I built the component's pads using mils(as the pads are 9x12mils in
dimension) but I am instructed by Chuck to built the entire symbol using
0.1" which doesn't make sense to me.
It makes perfect sense if you get the terminology clear.
A "symbol" is the mnemonic representation (for example a transistor
symbol with a thick vertical bar, an arrow and two other lines) of the
component for use on the schematic.
A "package" is the dimensioned representation of the physical component
placement on the PCB.
A "device" is a grouping of one (or more) symbols to one or more
possible packages for a family of components. For example, a 7400 has
four NAND gates and comes in DIP, SOIC and possibly other packages.
Seems rather odd, but then again I am re-familiarizing myself with EAGLE
not having worked with it in over 12 years being company trained in
OrCad.
But OrCad also has a clear - in fact even more explicit - distinction
between schematics and boards, so you should be familiar with the
concept that schematic symbols do not look like the physical package and
are not related to it in size.
Jorge Garcia wrote:
I'm sure it's the same with other users who don't use the Element-14
forum interface. I participate in the forum using the NNTP reader in
Thunderbird. The interface on Element-14 I guess just assigns messages
from the NNTP server to be Cadsoft Guest.
If anybody has found anyway around that I would be more than happy to
know how to do it.
I don't know for certain, but I think somehow there might be some kind of coordination between the EAGLE Central account and the Element14 account. When I post from either place, it seems to be correctly attributed. (For example, I posted this from the EAGLE Central site: Re: Essay on the Eagle Interface You can tell by the signature block where it came from.) You might contact James to see if that's it. (NOTE: I don't access the NNTP groups directly.)
I'd love to see a solution to posting lists and source code snippets so that they can be read on both/either Element14 and EAGLE Central. For example, I posted these Element14 links from Element14:
Element14: Re: Essay on the Eagle Interface
But nothing showed up on the NNTP feed:
EAGLE Central Forums: eagle.suggest.eng » Essay on the Eagle Interface
Same for source code snippets. Github gists look good on Element14, but don't seem to get propagated to the NNTP groups...
On 4/8/2014 8:53 PM, Graham Wideman wrote:
Emjay:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may
have been from him.
Hi Graham,
I'm sure it's the same with other users who don't use the Element-14
forum interface. I participate in the forum using the NNTP reader in
Thunderbird. The interface on Element-14 I guess just assigns messages
from the NNTP server to be Cadsoft Guest.
If anybody has found anyway around that I would be more than happy to
know how to do it.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Thank you Graham. Much appreciated. I have the entire schematic done with exception of this one issue so porting it over to OrCad will not be a problem.
My bank card is out with Cadence(Industry leader) on the phone. Should have known better dealing with a German company & its product. I support American companies. Much appreciated Graham. Take care and have good one!
~Emjay
TL;DR
Noone's hand feeds me anything!
Take your ego back to your imaginary 'kingdom' where it rules dude. This is real life where you don't count.
~Emjay
On 04/08/2014 06:58 PM, Emjay Ahday wrote:
I am building the COMPONENT for the SCHEMATIC being the COMPONENT is not
listed in EAGLE's library.
Hi Emjay,
Perhaps there's a terminology difference between OrCad and Eagle. I
used to use OrCad back in the late 80's and early 90's, and you're right
- components are placed on schematics.
In Eagle, the term "component" is not used but instead replaces it with
"device".
SCHEMATICS ARE COMPRISED OF INDIVIDUAL SMD or
STANDARD THROUGH HOLE COMPONENTS.
Uhmmm... not really. Schematics are composed of symbols. There's
nothing on a schematic that would elude to the physical implementation
of the said device - it's merely a symbol. Transistor (vertical bar,
arrow and lines), resistor (zig-zag lines), capacitor (parallel lines),
etc. They're all symbols. It's not until you work on the
implementation of the design that you start dealing with SMD or TH packages.
In Eagle, a device contains (usually) one symbol, like the zig-zag lines
of a resistor symbol, and one or more packages where each package
represents layout of the device. It could be SMD, or TH, or numerous
sizes of both. It is the /device/ that ties a /symbol/ to one or more
/packages/. Thus, when you place a device on your schematic, you also
choose a package that will be used later in the board layout. One can
also change the package of a device without changing the symbol.
I don't know why "device" was used instead of "component". Perhaps is
something related to German/English translation. Perhaps it's because
the former is a more generic term. Note that some devices do not have
anything installed. Shorts, plated mounting holes for chassis grounds,
board-implemented capacitors and inductors for RF designs, and tabs for
card edge connectors are all devices that have no installed components.
As such, the term "component" would misrepresent what they are.
Try using a dictionary if you are that ignorant of the English
language.(below you will see the term COMPONENT used)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
I will just buy OrCad which is most familiar to me being trained in it.
Perhaps that would be best for you. One must consider the cost of the
software and support for it, and weigh that against the cost of learning
new software.
Also for future references, when you see someone waiting for a response
from someone who was DIRECTLY ADDRESSED, DON'T ANSWER IN PLACE OF THAT
PERSON!
I would suggest that if you want a response from an individual, send
that individual an email. By posting in a public support forum, you
implicitly are soliciting any of the forum readers to provide help on a
volunteer basis.
I would also pose that yelling accomplishes nothing other than to
alienate yourself. There's an old saying related to this... something
like "biting the hand that feeds you".
HTH,
- Chuck
On 09/04/14 01:53, Graham Wideman wrote:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may
have been from him.
No, it wasn't Jorge, it was me. But if Emjay is too pig-headed to accept
help from anyone else WHEN POSTING IN A PUBLIC FORUM and finds
emphatic correction to be too painful to respond in any way but rudely,
then I fear there's no hope for him.
Emjay:
Jorge often posts as "CadSoft Guest", so actually the reply you read may have been from him.
Sounds like you are frustrated with the answer, but it contains the key that may solve your situation.
The central point is that, like most EDA software, Eagle distinguishes between the component's symbol used on the schematic, versus the physical shape of the component and its required pads or holes and the space that it occupies on the PCB.
Eagle calls the schematic symbol "Symbol", the PCB shape "Package", and the combination of the two is called "Device" (which I think of as "component", don't know about you.)
The schematic symbols often bear no shape relationship to the physical package. The schematic works best set to a large grid size (say 0.1 inch), with the schematic symbols defined in the library to have connection pins on that 0.1 inch grid. Because Eagle Schematic can only snap wires to the grid locations, if you have library symbols that don't abide by that grid it's difficult to impossible to connect wires to them. If instead you use a fine grid in Schematic editor, that would permit you to connect wires to symbols with odd pin positions, but it's too easy to position a wire near a pin, thinking it's connected, when actually it's a bit off.
Matters are different in PCB, because we have to abide by the physical size of packages and the position of their pins. So in PCB, we would use a finer grid (and the packages in the library likewise). Connecting is not a problem because that's already defined in the schematic, and represented on the PCB by airwires until routed.
From the discussion so far it sounds like you are trying to create a library _device_ (in Eagle terms) whose _symbol_ (for use in Schematic editor) is a dimensionally accurate picture of a micro-smd package. Of course, you could do that if you want, but most people would draw the accurate micro-smd _package_ for use only on the PCB, and for the Schematic _symbol_ draw a generic rectangle with pins positioned on the 0.1 inch grid.
As a related matter: It is in the _symbol_ that you would name the pins with function names (such as VCC, GND, D0, D1 or whatever). It is in the _package_ that you name the pads (1, 2, 3...). Finally, it is in the _device_ that you associate one or more packages with a symbol, and for each package list which pad associates with which pin.
Hope that helps.
I am not conflating anything. Been building schematics and COMPONENTS by hand for over 40 years since before EDA desktop software was available so I know my terminology very well. You are the one who is confused or just plain ignorant first for answering for someone you are not, secondly, for not understanding.
I am building the COMPONENT for the SCHEMATIC being the COMPONENT is not listed in EAGLE's library. SCHEMATICS ARE COMPRISED OF INDIVIDUAL SMD or STANDARD THROUGH HOLE COMPONENTS.
Try using a dictionary if you are that ignorant of the English language.(below you will see the term COMPONENT used)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
I will just buy OrCad which is most familiar to me being trained in it. Try working on your people skills novice, for you sure are socially ignorant.
Good day.
P.S.
Also for future references, when you see someone waiting for a response from someone who was DIRECTLY ADDRESSED, DON'T ANSWER IN PLACE OF THAT PERSON!
I asked JORGE whom you are not!
I await JORGE not you!
~Emjay
