Actions
Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 86 replies
  • Subscribers 204 subscribers
  • Views 15901 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Related

New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle

SpacedCowboy

So, I've used Eagle now for over 10 years. In all that time I've always upgraded to the latest version, but that's just stopped.

 

I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product as I have done for over a decade now.

 

The problem is two-fold:

  • You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if you have a single user license.
  • You cannot use a flexlm-based license for a single-user license.

 

The combination of those two things means I can't duplicate the setup I currently have, so this is the classic example of how proprietary software owners can screw you over without you having any recompense or workaround, despite you being a paying and loyal customer for an extended period of time. I don't consider cracking the software to be an adequate workaround.

 

So, if I'm going to have to spend $$$ in the thousands, I'll take a good look at the competition first, and even at the freebies like kikad. Eagle has major shortcomings anyway - no "bus routing" and the differential pair support is poor at best. I think, with this decision, cadsoft couldn't have done more to help along the freebies, and lose the people who might some day splash the cash and go for the pro option.

 

A primary rule for any software "upgrade" is "don't break the existing workflows". Eagle v7 is completely useless to me, not because of its feature-set, not because of any price issues, but because the management is being pants-on-head moronic about how it goes about licensing. Licensing, of all things.

 

Very disappointed.

  • in reply to Joop14

    On 07/20/2014 03:17 AM, Joop14 wrote:

    Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

     

    This is the kind of thing that happens when a bureaucrat is left alone

    in a room with a typewriter.

     

    Did they expected to boost their sales with a more restrictive license

    policy, or moving from a user based license to a concurrent license?

     

    Cadsoft, you were doing so well.  Now you've made a strategic decision

    down a path that will more likely lead to fewer sales, not more.

     

    I, for one, am looking forward to version 7.1 that reverts back to the

    previous licensing policy, you know, the one that produced the growth

    that you've seen so far.

     

        - Chuck

    10 year+ eagle user.

     

  • in reply to autodeskguest

    Can someone confirm that??

    Not for me - I installed 7.0.0 to test it out, and have all my previous versions still there & licensed...

  • in reply to patweston

    Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:

     

    snip

     

    What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,

     

     

    Can someone confirm that??

     

    And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?

     

     

    --

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

     

    Joern Paschedag

     

  • in reply to Joop14

    On 20.07.2014 09:17, Joop14 wrote:

     

    Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

     

    Greetings from Mr. Shareholder Value

     

    Markus

     

     

  • in reply to Joop14

    Hi,

    Joop14 is right.

    Since V5 I use eagle, I purchased my license for my personal use, I made my company to purchase it's own, so at work I use the license of my company. I and my company purchase the upgrade to V6.

    I could use only one license for my company and my personal use, but I didn't and I will not. But if we can not purchase a server base 1 user license or a dongle based one, my company will certainly not purchase and update and we will keep V6. And for my personal use I will do the same.

     

    As I said

    we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles

    so why purchase this update ?

     

    And why on earth they don't let us choose a 1 user server based license: there is NO technical issue since all the license server I know support 1 user or several users !!!

     

    I'm not into future reading, and I don't know

    how many more licenses will they sell because of this "improved license management"

    but I see one thing: if they don't change their policy, they at least loose my license, that the one of my company.

  • It looks like Cadsoft want to piss off their customers. The most important question for them is, how many more licences will they sell because of this "improved license management" and how many future sales/upgrades they will lose...

     

    It's true that you can find pirated copies with torrent but, honestly, people who use those pirated copies for free, will never buy a license because they are not professionals. For them it's not important enough to spend money for a license. So, their is not much gain for Cadsoft.

    And I'm sure that also V7 will be cracked and available on torrent soon. In the end, honest people who have bought a license will be punished with this silly "host-id" restriction and the pirates will continue laughing.

     

    We have bought a license for the professional version (V6) but with this "improved license management" it's unlikely that we are going to upgrade...

     

    Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

  • in reply to kikoun

    Guillaume barrey wrote:

     

    The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...

     

    Well it would be good - if they allowed single user licenses to use flexor, but since they don't, it's a non-starter for me.

  • in reply to patweston

    patweston a écrit:

     

    "My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"

    It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.

     

    IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.


    Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.

     

    What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.

     

    What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!

    My point was that some time we have to change things. But when we plan to change something, we had to think about it carefully and think about the consequences. And it's seems that Cadsoft didn't figure that.

    I didn't know that installing V7 will uninstall previous version. THAT IS STUPID FOR A SOFTWARE USED FOR PRODUCTION OR INDUSTRY. How could we work if the new version is buggy. And how we open/edit some project without converting it to new version (to send it to someone who still work with the previous version for example)

     

    And according to your message, it seems that the documentation were not ready too...

     

    The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...

     

    For dongle protection, I encounter some trouble too (with the Autocad's dongle, and with dongles we used to protect our software. That why we develop our own dongle).

  • in reply to kikoun

    "My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"

    It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.

     

    IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.


    Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.

     

    What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.

     

    What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!

  • in reply to autodeskguest

    Hello everyone,

     

    The protection of his software is a big challenge for a company. I'm really aware of that since I work in a company that design electronics but also is a software editor (software for industry). I think that Cadsoft needs to change their protection system, because they wouldn't spend so many week of work to do it. Maybe it was for technical reasons (maximum license number ?), maybe because they discover that too many eagle users use it with out license.

    (It happened to my company: our  software was protected by dongle (I will not tell the brand of this dongle here) and 3 years ago, we found that you could buy on internet a software that simulate these dongles, and some of our customer use it ...).

    My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?

     

    But, selecting a good protection needs to understand what are the consequences for your customer and your company. I think Cadsoft miss that. In our company, we never propose a protection based on host ID, because host ID is troubles for your customers and also for you. And troubles is not how we do business in industrial environment.

    We propose to our customers 2 solutions: license server EVEN FOR 1 USER LICENSE, or dongle protection (we designed our own new dongle, I have done the PCB design (with Eagle of course)).

     

    Why Host ID is trouble for customers:

    1. - You PC crashes, or need a reinstall, you loose the host ID. Even if Cadsoft regenerate a new license, you already lost time to reinstall or change your PC, but you have spare time to beg a new license ! not really 'industrial'... Ho, I forget, you can use a second host id... so now, explain me how I will give you TODAY the host ID of my future pc or OS I will have when, in 11 month, I will need to change my PC (or OS) ?!?
    2. - In industry, it's easy to manage IDENTICAL COMPUTER. So even  there is 1 user license, license server is always the best option. Most of our big customers  always have a spare computers, ready to go, and If someone encounter some trouble, they immediately change the computer: it's easy if all is on server, not with host ID. And don't think that they are crazy: they know how much it cost when you employees can not work... That why we do the same in our company.
    3. - You boss will finally accept to buy you a new computer with higher performance, but you will explain that it's tricky, you can really easily change your PC because of that host ID ??????
    4. - I also have a personal license (for my personal use since I'm also a hobbyist), my pc run with LInux (opensuse).  Each time there is a new linux distribution I install it on my computer (1 per year). Will i have to beg for a new license ?????
    5. - and I don't mention all the good reasons previously written on that forum...

     

    And on the Cadsoft side, there are 2 options:

    1. - They accept to regenerate host ID to all customer that need to : It's a lot of work for nothing, and they will not control any thing ( what will prove them that you have changed your os or your pc ? ( I will not spend a penny to send them the remains of my  PC)...
    2. - They refuse to regenerate host id: they will be accused of theft by their customers.

     

    My conclusion :

    So I'm sorry to say that: it's not really serious to choose:  'No dongle AND no flexlm for 1 user'.

    For my company, my boss is not ready to buy a software based on host ID. And if there is no way to have a license server option (or at least a dongle), I think I would have trouble to convince him (we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles...).

     

    For my own personal license: I was about to purchase the V7 update, but I will not, unless:

    • Cadsoft propose a dongle option (even if it costs a little bit more because of the dongle itself).
    • or Cadsoft will confirm that in November, when I will reinstall new linux OS (next opensuse version) (On the same computer of course), the host ID will not change.
    • or last option, Cadsoft let us purchase a single user flexlm license, so I could run the server on a old computer. But that solution sucks because this means that I could not use Eagle out of my home, even if my computer is a laptop !

     

    PS for Cadsoft reader:

    I understand the need to change a protection system.

     

    I understand that dongle can be challenging, specially if you plan to use dongle from an other company.

    Our experience is that we designed our own dongle, 3 years ago. We already sold 2700 dongle with our software, and each dongle cost us 14€. This dongle is design for us only, so hackers have too few interest to hack the protection. And we save money: the previous one cost us 35€ and it was so popular (used by several famous software) that is was hacked !

     

    But why no 1 user server based solution ?????

     

    Guillaume Barrey