"SHOW GROUP" equivalent command?

On 18.08.2015 13:44, Graham Wideman wrote:

In Eagle's editors, I'm wondering if there's a way to view the currently

defined GROUP -- that is, to highlight the group just like it highlights

when originally defined?

 

I imagined that SHOW GROUP might do that, but it just produces an

error.  But maybe there's some other maneuver that does it?

"group (c@)" does revive the highlight of the group, but I agree it

would be nice if show (and especially show @) could be used.

Thanks for your reply Morten. I'm not sure if your instructions got mangled, but when I try what you sent, it doesn't do anything so far as I can tell. (And doesn't show an error message either.)

Your message shows:

group    open-paren   c    at-sign   close-paren

Was that what you intended?

On 18.08.2015 14:38, Graham Wideman wrote:

Thanks for your reply Morten. I'm not sure if your instructions got

mangled, but when I try what you sent, it doesn't do anything so far as

I can tell. (And doesn't show an error message either.)

 

Your message shows:

 

group    open-paren   c    at-sign   close-paren

 

Was that what you intended?

Yes, this is really adding something under the cursor to the group, so

make sure your mousepointer is inside the window on an empty spot.

This command does the same as doing group,CTRL+LMB, but you could do

group (c-1000 -1000) to do the same to a coord you know is outside, here

(-1000 -1000) as an example.

Look for "command syntax" in help to learn about these modifier

keysinside brackets.

Ah, now I get what you are suggesting. Unfortunately, it doesn't work, at least not on 6.5 or 7.3, the way you and I were intending.

Using either the typed-in command, or the Ctrl-left-mouse gesture, and a coordinate that's not near any object, this command does not re-highlight the GROUP.

It DOES re-highlight the group if the coordinate is close enough to an object to hit it (which can be surprisingly far!), which either adds that object to the group, or removes it if it was already a member. So although the highlighting gets activated, the group is changed.

I had actually tried variations of this procedure already with no success -- sorry I didn't recognize the command-line form. (Seaching Help for "c" and c@ didn't do much good :-) )

So, back to square one, I think.

-- Graham

On 18.08.2015 23:37, Graham Wideman wrote:

Ah, now I get what you are suggesting. Unfortunately, it doesn't work,

at least not on 6.5 or 7.3, the way you and I were intending.

 

Using either the typed-in command, or the Ctrl-left-mouse gesture, and a

coordinate that's not near any object, this command does not

re-highlight the GROUP.

 

It DOES re-highlight the group if the coordinate is close enough to an

object to hit it (which can be surprisingly far!), which either adds

that object to the group, or removes it if it was already a member. So

although the highlighting gets activated, the group is changed.

 

I had actually tried variations of this procedure already with no

success -- sorry I didn't recognize the command-line form. (Seaching

Help for "c" and c@ didn't do much good )

 

So, back to square one, I think.

Im not sure what you do wrong. As I mentioned, I tested this on 6.5.4,

several times. Maybe your group selection vanished with some other

action? What happens if you add stuff to group with ctrl+mouse?

CadSoft Guest wrote:

 

Im not sure what you do wrong. As I mentioned, I tested this on 6.5.4,

several times. Maybe your group selection vanished with some other

action? What happens if you add stuff to group with ctrl+mouse?

 

 

Like I described in previous message, and just retested, I can certainly get the existing group to re-highlight using ostensibly your method, but only in the scenario where it either adds or removes an item to the group (that is:  GROUP... Ctrl-left-click on an object)..

So it's not a matter of the group vanishing -- it's definitely there, and I can use it subsequent to being unable to make the group highlight by your proposed method.

On 19.08.2015 11:43, Graham Wideman wrote:

 

CadSoft Guest wrote:

 

Im not sure what you do wrong. As I mentioned, I tested this on 6.5.4,

 

several times. Maybe your group selection vanished with some other

 

action? What happens if you add stuff to group with ctrl+mouse?

 

Like I described in previous message, and just retested, I can certainly

get the existing group to re-highlight using ostensibly your method, but

only in the scenario where it either adds or removes an item to the

group (that is:  GROUP... Ctrl-left-click on an object)..

 

So it's not a matter of the group vanishing -- it's definitely there,

and I can use it subsequent to being unable to make the group highlight

by your proposed method.

Maybe the catch/select/snap parameters are the clue here. What's yours

set to? (Options menu, Misc tab)

I got catch=0%,select=2%, snap length=2mil

On 19.08.2015 11:43, Graham Wideman wrote:

 

CadSoft Guest wrote:

 

Im not sure what you do wrong. As I mentioned, I tested this on 6.5.4,

 

several times. Maybe your group selection vanished with some other

 

action? What happens if you add stuff to group with ctrl+mouse?

 

Like I described in previous message, and just retested, I can certainly

get the existing group to re-highlight using ostensibly your method, but

only in the scenario where it either adds or removes an item to the

group (that is:  GROUP... Ctrl-left-click on an object)..

 

So it's not a matter of the group vanishing -- it's definitely there,

and I can use it subsequent to being unable to make the group highlight

by your proposed method.

Maybe the catch/select/snap parameters are the clue here. What's yours

set to? (Options menu, Misc tab)

I got catch=0%,select=2%, snap length=2mil

Hi Morten,

CadSoft Guest wrote:

 

Maybe the catch/select/snap parameters are the clue here. What's yours

set to? (Options menu, Misc tab)

 

I got catch=0%,select=2%, snap length=2mil

You nailed it!  Turns out that it's the catch option that makes the difference in what we were seeing. If set to zero, I see your behavior, otherwise I see mine.

(For our home audience, in 7.3, it's Options menu > Set > Misc tab.)

So IF the catch option is set to zero, then  GROUP... Ctrl-Left-Click in blank space on drawing will re-highlight the group.

I'm not sure this is THE solution, since it requires catch = 0, regarding which I don't know the practical implications (and it just seems nutty that there's this weird interaction). Also, it depends on clicking somewhere guaranteed not to accidentally add or remove an item from the group. Not horrible, but a little brittle.  So it would still be nice if there were a function whose sole purpose was just to re-highlight the group reliably. (Such as, oh, I dunno, just clicking on the Group button!)

Anyhow, I'll let this sit for another day or so to see if there are any other bright ideas, and if not I'll mark it answered.

Thanks for your perseverance!

-- Graham

I'm not sure this is THE solution, since it requires catch = 0,

regarding which I don't know the practical implications (and it just

seems nutty that there's this weird interaction). Also, it depends on

clicking somewhere guaranteed not to accidentally add or remove an item

from the group. Not horrible, but a little brittle.  So it would still

be nice if there were a function whose sole purpose was just to

re-highlight the group reliably. (Such as, oh, I dunno, just clicking on

the Group button!)

The catch factor dictates how close an item must be in order to be

selected when you left-click. By default it's set to 5% of the screen. I

figure 0% requires you to be dead-on when you click the item you want to

modify.

The catch factor dictates how close an item must be in order to be

selected when you left-click. By default it's set to 5% of the screen. I

figure 0% requires you to be dead-on when you click the item you want to

modify.

Well, yes, I realize that's the idea.  What I don't have a feel for (yet) is how convenient or inconvenient it is to set it to zero.

And why a setting of zero is entangled with enabling a "show group" function?!

On 20.08.2015 00:22, Graham Wideman wrote:

The catch factor dictates how close an item must be in order to be

 

selected when you left-click. By default it's set to 5% of the screen.

I

 

figure 0% requires you to be dead-on when you click the item you want

to

 

modify.

Well, yes, I realize that's the idea.  What I don't have a feel for

(yet) is how convenient or inconvenient it is to set it to zero.

 

And why a setting of zero is entangled with enabling a "show group"

function?!

It looks like a catch factor of 0 means infinity. This means my way of

doing it must unintentionally add something to the group... somewhere.

So my method should definitely be avoided.

I tested it here and ctrl+lmb does seem to catch whatever is close when

I click on an empty space.

BUT, if you ctrl click a 2nd time, it unselects the same item again, so

doing "group (c@) (c@)" does seem to work!

(of course you may replace @ with an offboard coord)..

CadSoft Guest wrote:

 

It looks like a catch factor of 0 means infinity. This means my way of

doing it must unintentionally add something to the group... somewhere.

So my method should definitely be avoided.

 

I tested it here and ctrl+lmb does seem to catch whatever is close when

I click on an empty space.

Oh dear! I too just did some more careful tests, and agree with you.

> BUT, if you ctrl click a 2nd time, it unselects the same item again, so

> doing "group (c@) (c@)" does seem to work!

I guess this "feature" could be advertised as:

Select the GROUP command button, then use Ctrl-double-click in the drawing window"!

Hahaha. OK, not really solved.

-- Graham

All the tweaks aside, I wonder if the best and maybe simplest solution

to this problem is if the programmes at cadsoft just enabled the

highlight as soon as the group command got active. That doesnt sound

like a lot of work for them.

> highlight as soon as the group command got active

That was certainly the idea that came to mind earlier.  I'm not super confident that there's no problem with it, but it would be very discoverable, and very much help educate people about the Group concept, which is otherwise chronically mystifying.

Suggestion posted in:

http://www.element14.com/community/message/158487/l/show-group-command#158487