Downgrading brd/sch from V5 -> V4

Nick de Smith schrieb:

I've been playing with V5, and very nice it is too! (thanks guys).

 

However, I publish a few designs on the web & elsewhere, and the bottom line

is that very few Eagle users will be on V5 for some time, especially as its

a cost-option and V4.16r2 is pretty stable.

 

So, can I save/export a V5 project in V4 format, such that V4 users can work

with it? Even MS Word allows this sort of functionality. A ULP that stripped

all the V5 extras (attributes etc.) would probably be the route to take...

 

Is this possible/has it been done?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

 

 

EAGLE can't save the files in an older data format. Changes in the

data structure are partially irreversible and new features can't

be interpreted by older EAGLE version. This could cause losses in

your drawings.

And by the way:

A simply written text with a few letters arranged on a sheet

can't be compared to a schematic/layout design, can it? scnr

--

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards

Richard Hammerl

  CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de

  FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/faq.htm

"Richard Hammerl" <ric@cadsoft.de> wrote in message

news:g3qo41$uhu$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

EAGLE can't save the files in an older data format. Changes in the

data structure are partially irreversible and new features can't

be interpreted by older EAGLE version. This could cause losses in

your drawings.

If you read my initial posting, I mentioned that the enhanced functionality

of V5 would have to be removed in the transfer, but the truth is a lot of

that is subtle, such as the treatment of xref lables etc (which can always

go back to being plain lables in V4).

There are ULPs around that extract all sorts of data from SCH/BRD files -

netlists, parts etc. I was merely wondering how hard it would be to export

from V5 & then import into V4 such data.

As I also pointed out, many other products do this - e.g. MS Word 2007 can

export in many formats, including those of previous versions of Word, even

though some formatting etc. may be lost... In Eagle's case, the base

requirements for a consistent schematic at least haven't changed -

components & a netlist. Nice things like attributes etc. can be dropped as

they don't directly impact the logical integrity of the schematic.

And by the way:

A simply written text with a few letters arranged on a sheet

can't be compared to a schematic/layout design, can it? scnr

?? I'm not sure what you mean by this. The whole point of my request is that

there is (and will be for some time) a very large constituency of V4 users

who will not be able to play with anything created under V5, which makes

those who publish designs hold back from upgrading.

Nick

I think you are searching for attached files....

exporting works, except for components that aren't in Eagle4's libraries.

"Nick de Smith" <nick@desmith.net> wrote in message

news:g3obfd$jle$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

I've been playing with V5, and very nice it is too! (thanks guys).

 

However, I publish a few designs on the web & elsewhere, and the bottom

line

is that very few Eagle users will be on V5 for some time, especially as

its

a cost-option and V4.16r2 is pretty stable.

 

So, can I save/export a V5 project in V4 format, such that V4 users can

work

with it? Even MS Word allows this sort of functionality. A ULP that

stripped

all the V5 extras (attributes etc.) would probably be the route to take...

 

Is this possible/has it been done?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

 

 

 

On 2008/Jun/24 8:08 AM, in article g3qo41$uhu$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de, "Richard

Hammerl" <ric@cadsoft.de> wrote:

Nick de Smith schrieb:

I've been playing with V5, and very nice it is too! (thanks guys).

 

However, I publish a few designs on the web & elsewhere, and the bottom line

is that very few Eagle users will be on V5 for some time, especially as its

a cost-option and V4.16r2 is pretty stable.

 

So, can I save/export a V5 project in V4 format, such that V4 users can work

with it? Even MS Word allows this sort of functionality. A ULP that stripped

all the V5 extras (attributes etc.) would probably be the route to take...

 

Is this possible/has it been done?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

 

 

 

EAGLE can't save the files in an older data format. Changes in the

data structure are partially irreversible and new features can't

be interpreted by older EAGLE version. This could cause losses in

your drawings.

Hi Richard,

Would it not be possible to include "Save As..." with an option to store in

an older file formats (3.5, 4.0, 4.1)?  Almost every program I know allows

for this.  Even Microsoft, the king of forced upgrades for little value has

this feature.  Given the code exists already it doesn't appear to be

technically infeasible.  I suppose it would increase the code size somewhat

but it can't be that different.  Even if it was would it matter?

This small addition would make the transition between versions easier to

deal with.  And for people like us who have customers who use different

versions of EAGLE, being able to save into different formats would allow us

to use the feature enhancements of V5 (GUI, MAC OS X native, ...) and send

files to our customers who are still using 4.x.

And by the way:

A simply written text with a few letters arranged on a sheet

can't be compared to a schematic/layout design, can it? scnr

If you mean a Word file is less complex than a PCB design, I'm not sure that

you're right.  Embedded OLE, crazy formatting, auto-numbering, ....

Cheers,

James.

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~                                          ~

~  James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital  ~

~                                          ~

~  email:  sales@eagletoolkit.com          ~

~  fax:    888.701.8097                    ~

~  web:    http://www.eagletoolkit.com     ~

~                                          ~

~  Online EAGLE Dealer for US and Canada   ~

~  EAGLE Design Experts                    ~

~  EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit                ~

~                                          ~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

James Morrison schrieb:

Hi Richard,

 

Would it not be possible to include "Save As..." with an option to store in

an older file formats (3.5, 4.0, 4.1)?  Almost every program I know allows

for this.  Even Microsoft, the king of forced upgrades for little value has

this feature.  Given the code exists already it doesn't appear to be

technically infeasible.  I suppose it would increase the code size somewhat

but it can't be that different.  Even if it was would it matter?

One the one hand I support your point. Of course it would be nice

to have the possibility to design a board in EAGLE 5 and save it

in EAGLE 4.1 data format, or as you propose even in 4.0 or 3.5.

So far so good. To have such an option would be very nice.....

...but what if the quality of the board in EAGLE 4.1 or 4.0

is not the same as in EAGLE 5?

Let's take ARCs, for example:

Now they can have signals, in EAGLE 4.0 they can't. Suddenly

you will get lots of DRC errors, RATSNEST tells you something

about unrouted airwires. Or for example a polygon: It can have

a round shape. This is not possible in EAGLE 4. It can't be

displayed anymore in the layout.

Or an example from version 5 to 4.1:

Define attibutes for your components. All this information would

be lost... Yes I know, we could write it in a layer as simple

text, so not everything would lost.

Or, for example, make a partlist with a bom.ulp that exports

attributes. The partlist made with EAGLE 4.1 of the same board/

schematic would be different. Again arcs: Now the can have

rounded ends and Gerber export uses an aperture that has

the same diameter as the arc's width. Go back to EAGLE 4.1 and

you will have arcs with flat ends. Gerber will use a fine

width for emulating the arcs. In the worst case the arc is not

visible on your board.

And now let's assume your partner (the one with EAGLE 4.1)

changes something in the board and you want to load it again

EAGLE 5. I think I can foresee that this might end up in a kind

of desaster. Not in all cases, sure. I admitt, I am painting

black here. But I know Murphys law....

Wouldn't a customer expect that the conversion in the older data

format is without loss withour changes in his design?

Ich think he would, and I think he is right with his expectation.

But I see a lot of obstacles and traps for such a function.

Nevertheless I will discuss your proposal with our development

people.

--

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards

Richard Hammerl

  CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de

  FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/faq.htm

Richard Hammerl wrote:

Wouldn't a customer expect that the conversion in the older data

format is without loss withour changes in his design?

simple answer: no.

On the other hand, I wouldn't spend too much time on it because there

are more pressing demands.

Oliver

Nick de Smith wrote:

I've been playing with V5, and very nice it is too! (thanks guys).

 

However, I publish a few designs on the web & elsewhere, and the bottom line

is that very few Eagle users will be on V5 for some time, especially as its

a cost-option and V4.16r2 is pretty stable.

At the moment you've got two options:

- Stay with V4.16r2, it's pretty stable

- Upgrade to V5 and restrict yourself to designs within the limits of

the freeware edition of V5. Are your published designs too complex ?

Markus

"Markus Baertschi" <markus@markus.org> wrote in message

news:g3to81$590$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

At the moment you've got two options:

- Stay with V4.16r2, it's pretty stable

- Upgrade to V5 and restrict yourself to designs within the limits of

the freeware edition of V5. Are your published designs too complex ?

No, but I want to work with V5 as it addresses some of the UI issues I had

with the older versions (which I've been happily using for many years).

I did a deal to upgrade to V5 & move to the professional version (just so I

can have bigger boards), and it now seems that I'll have to stick with V4 if

I ever want anyone else to use my designs, as, quite frankly, very few are

going to upgrade yet.

Cheers

Nick

On 2008/Jun/25 7:20 AM, in article g3t9q5$fs7$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de, "Richard

Hammerl" <ric@cadsoft.de> wrote:

Wouldn't a customer expect that the conversion in the older data

format is without loss withour changes in his design?

Ich think he would, and I think he is right with his expectation.

But I see a lot of obstacles and traps for such a function.

Complete conversion without loss of data?  I wouldn't expect that.  General

functionality?  Probably.

I think you're trying to save your customers from themselves.  But in this

case it's not that bad.  You have the original already.  File->Save As won't

overwrite the file, it will create a new file.  A simple warning to say

(just like Word or other similar programs) that saving to old formats may

have data loss is sufficient.  The user can save it out and then see if that

is sufficient.

The arcs issues isn't a big deal at all, at least to us.  Of all the boards

we've done I've used arcs maybe twice.  So if I had to redo those by hand

I'd be more than happy to do that.

I do realise that some things have changed but there's a lot that hasn't and

saving it out would be useful for us in particular and many people in

general.

Cheers,

James.

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~                                          ~

~  James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital  ~

~                                          ~

~  email:  sales@eagletoolkit.com          ~

~  fax:    888.701.8097                    ~

~  web:    http://www.eagletoolkit.com     ~

~                                          ~

~  Online EAGLE Dealer for US and Canada   ~

~  EAGLE Design Experts                    ~

~  EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit                ~

~                                          ~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Nick de Smith" <nick@desmith.net> wrote in message

news:g3obfd$jle$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

I've been playing with V5, and very nice it is too! (thanks guys).

 

However, I publish a few designs on the web & elsewhere, and the bottom

line is that very few Eagle users will be on V5 for some time, especially

as its a cost-option and V4.16r2 is pretty stable.

 

So, can I save/export a V5 project in V4 format, such that V4 users can

work with it? Even MS Word allows this sort of functionality. A ULP that

stripped all the V5 extras (attributes etc.) would probably be the route

to take...

 

Is this possible/has it been done?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

 

I was ready to upgrade, but this thread has convinced me not to.

JA