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Thoughts on Eagle 8?

adrewery87

I believe this is the most fitting place for this post, but please let me know if I am mistaken. Has anyone else tried using Eagle 8, and, if so, what are your thoughts?

 

I've been using Eagle since I came into the industry four years ago. We originally had Eagle 5.x, and we have purchased the upgrades as they became available. After we decided the features were worth it. I've long thought the usage was a bit clunky at times, but there was typically an easy workaround for whatever issue I may be having.

 

Recently, Autodesk launched Eagle 8. We also were starting design on a board with BGA parts (which we have not had much experience with previously), and several of the new features  seemed like they would be really helpful. We went ahead and made the upgrade. I was excited because my company uses Autodesk Fusion - great, there will likely be integration added in the future. I also thought that they would be making an honest attempt to compete with Altium at a much lower price point. Instead, they made it less user friendly.

 

After struggling with it for two weeks, I have requested a refund. I am curious as to others' thoughts on Eagle 8. Mine are summarized below.

 

New Features:

The module feature sounds really useful, because we use several switching regulators on multiple PCBs. However, I have been unable to get it to work.The context help menu for the module tool may as well be another language, because it does not make any sense to me.

 

The "easy BGA" feature left multiple pads trapped, and it would have been an enormous pain to use them in the future if needed. Should have known - autorouters aren't very good.

 

I find the simplified selection tools are actually more difficult to use. I was having problems moving individual parts, and I had problems grouping and then moving collections of parts. I even increased the catch factor, but it really hasn't seemed to help much.

 

Routing:

Previously, when I was routing a trace, I would click the center mouse button and select the new layer. Eagle would then insert the via and then switch to the selected layer. I would then route on the layer I had just selected. Perfect. To me this is very intuitive.

 

Now, I click the center mouse button, I select my desired layer, and it forces me to route on the same layer I was on. It does not sink the via until after I've dragged the trace over pads that are for different signals. This, in my opinion, makes the routing tool incredibly difficult to use. We may be pushing Eagle to its limits with some of our designs. I often have to get around several obstacles and I don't know that I want to switch layers until I am stuck. Then I have to either group all the traces and change the layers, or they have to be swapped one by one.

 

I visited their support site, and I was unable to identify whether I could change this functionality back (you cannot). I was unable to find any "support" other than questions about subscriptions. I spent an hour looking for any way to change such a simple setting. I even contacted support, but when I asked if it was possible to change that setting I got, "So you are wanting to leave feedback?" No, I want to be able to use one of the most fundamental parts of a PCB design program the way I had been the past four years.

 

Subscription:

My understanding of the industry is that the most popular PCB CAD programs are Altium, Allegro, and Eagle. With Altium, while you pay an arm and a leg for it, you purchase the product and a one year subscription up front. At the end of the year you can elect to keep your support active. There are also gobs of really nice features that I noticed when I tried it a couple of years ago. At the time, Altium was cost prohibitive, but my company could much more easily afford this now. I have not looked into Allegro at all, so I am not sure how the purchasing/subscription works.

 

So Autodesk buys Eagle, and then immediately turns it into a subscription based service. I understand that many software platforms are going to this model, but I don't want to have to maintain a subscription if I do not think the new features being added in will be worth it. This in it of itself makes it a tough sell, but I went ahead and gave it a shot.

 

Conclusion:

I thought it would be worth giving the upgrade a shot. Some of the features seemed really cool, but none of them are user friendly or intuitive. The support for it is practically non-existent right now from what I can tell. It seems like Autodesk felt like they had to make changes to some basic functionality to make Eagle their own. Instead, they've made it incredibly difficult to use. I would not recommend upgrading, but I am curious to see if anyone else has had a different experience.

 

*Edited to fix spelling and clarify my thoughts.

  • in reply to rick_b

    Hi Rick,

     

    image  My mouse is running well because gets feed every day.

     

    This was just an example of the possibility and also my intention to help Adam, together with the flowchart.

    I'm just waiting for Jorge's answer, so I've also created the video.

    Yes of course, if this issue will be a fundamental point then we can open a new thread.

     

    Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

  • in reply to adrewery87

    On 2/4/2017 5:56 PM, Adam Drewery wrote:

    Gerald,

     

    Thank you for the reply. While the suggestion did help to a small degree, I still do not think that it's very intuitive. If it were truly intuitive then training or a flowchart would not be needed. For something like routing a trace, I think use of a flowchart adds confusion, but everyone learns in their own way. In this case, it was a complete overhaul to a completely functional system. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I've messed around with another layout. I think the more I use it the more frustrated I get. To me, it makes more sense for step 4 to be:

     

    4) press the middle mouse button - > select layer -> via is placed at current trace end and layer is switched

     

    Why does there need to be TWO additional steps? 4a and 4b are unnecessary mouse clicks in my opinion. I suggest giving the user the option to determine how that works. Especially considering the system was completely changed. It could be just like the different wire bend styles. When the middle mouse button is pressed and the new layer is selected:

    Option a) The via is sunk immediately, and routing begins on a new layer. (Legacy Eagle routing operation)

    Option b) The via is carried until an additional left mouse click has been made. The via is then formed where that mouse click occurs. (Eagle 8 routing operation)

     

    I guess my questions to you are:

     

    1) Do you feel there was any real improvement made in changing the routing engine?

    Hi Adam,

     

    I think so. Being able to backspace segments(hit the backspace key and

    you undo the previously laid segment) has been very useful for me. The

    idea behind the extra click is that you can determine on the fly where

    exactly you want the via to be, without having to commit to the end of

    the last segment you placed. It may seem like an extra click now but

    once push and shove comes into the picture(some time this year), you'll

    see that it beneficial to be able to carry the via around as you

    determine the best way to layout your signal. Keep in mind that now you

    can switch layers by using the spacebar and shift+spacebar keys which I

    find to be faster than the middle mouse click.

     

    2) What do you think about the other changes that have been made?

    I really like designblocks and I think its one of the strongest new

    features. The new GROUP mode and routing engine would be up there for me

    as well.

     

    This also brings up perhaps the biggest issue of all. Why was there not some sort of basic, easy to find tutorial highlighting some of the new features and changes to existing features? Something that would highlight the changes and offer some suggestions for using Eagle how it used to be? If Autodesk truly intends to have Eagle CAD remain a quality product, then their support and tutorials need a drastic improvement. Thus far I have been sorely disappointed.

     

    I'll own up to the tutorials thing. We do need to make more of those,

    there just wasn't any time before the release to do it.I was doing so

    many other things in preparation for it, I can only imagine what the

    rest of the team was up to.

     

    In the coming months you'll see more content up on our website showing

    how these new features can be leveraged to be more productive in EAGLE.

     

    Support wise I'm also trying to stay on top of the forums and e-mail as

    best as I can, the rest of the team is also doing their best. Feel free

    to post here or in the Autodesk EAGLE forum since that has the best

    chance right now of being spotted by support personnel.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

  • in reply to adrewery87

    On 2/4/2017 5:56 PM, Adam Drewery wrote:

    Gerald,

     

    Thank you for the reply. While the suggestion did help to a small degree, I still do not think that it's very intuitive. If it were truly intuitive then training or a flowchart would not be needed. For something like routing a trace, I think use of a flowchart adds confusion, but everyone learns in their own way. In this case, it was a complete overhaul to a completely functional system. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I've messed around with another layout. I think the more I use it the more frustrated I get. To me, it makes more sense for step 4 to be:

     

    4) press the middle mouse button - > select layer -> via is placed at current trace end and layer is switched

     

    Why does there need to be TWO additional steps? 4a and 4b are unnecessary mouse clicks in my opinion. I suggest giving the user the option to determine how that works. Especially considering the system was completely changed. It could be just like the different wire bend styles. When the middle mouse button is pressed and the new layer is selected:

    Option a) The via is sunk immediately, and routing begins on a new layer. (Legacy Eagle routing operation)

    Option b) The via is carried until an additional left mouse click has been made. The via is then formed where that mouse click occurs. (Eagle 8 routing operation)

     

    I guess my questions to you are:

     

    1) Do you feel there was any real improvement made in changing the routing engine?

    Hi Adam,

     

    I think so. Being able to backspace segments(hit the backspace key and

    you undo the previously laid segment) has been very useful for me. The

    idea behind the extra click is that you can determine on the fly where

    exactly you want the via to be, without having to commit to the end of

    the last segment you placed. It may seem like an extra click now but

    once push and shove comes into the picture(some time this year), you'll

    see that it beneficial to be able to carry the via around as you

    determine the best way to layout your signal. Keep in mind that now you

    can switch layers by using the spacebar and shift+spacebar keys which I

    find to be faster than the middle mouse click.

     

    2) What do you think about the other changes that have been made?

    I really like designblocks and I think its one of the strongest new

    features. The new GROUP mode and routing engine would be up there for me

    as well.

     

    This also brings up perhaps the biggest issue of all. Why was there not some sort of basic, easy to find tutorial highlighting some of the new features and changes to existing features? Something that would highlight the changes and offer some suggestions for using Eagle how it used to be? If Autodesk truly intends to have Eagle CAD remain a quality product, then their support and tutorials need a drastic improvement. Thus far I have been sorely disappointed.

     

    I'll own up to the tutorials thing. We do need to make more of those,

    there just wasn't any time before the release to do it.I was doing so

    many other things in preparation for it, I can only imagine what the

    rest of the team was up to.

     

    In the coming months you'll see more content up on our website showing

    how these new features can be leveraged to be more productive in EAGLE.

     

    Support wise I'm also trying to stay on top of the forums and e-mail as

    best as I can, the rest of the team is also doing their best. Feel free

    to post here or in the Autodesk EAGLE forum since that has the best

    chance right now of being spotted by support personnel.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

  • in reply to adrewery87

    On 2/4/2017 5:56 PM, Adam Drewery wrote:

    Gerald,

     

    Thank you for the reply. While the suggestion did help to a small degree, I still do not think that it's very intuitive. If it were truly intuitive then training or a flowchart would not be needed. For something like routing a trace, I think use of a flowchart adds confusion, but everyone learns in their own way. In this case, it was a complete overhaul to a completely functional system. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I've messed around with another layout. I think the more I use it the more frustrated I get. To me, it makes more sense for step 4 to be:

     

    4) press the middle mouse button - > select layer -> via is placed at current trace end and layer is switched

     

    Why does there need to be TWO additional steps? 4a and 4b are unnecessary mouse clicks in my opinion. I suggest giving the user the option to determine how that works. Especially considering the system was completely changed. It could be just like the different wire bend styles. When the middle mouse button is pressed and the new layer is selected:

    Option a) The via is sunk immediately, and routing begins on a new layer. (Legacy Eagle routing operation)

    Option b) The via is carried until an additional left mouse click has been made. The via is then formed where that mouse click occurs. (Eagle 8 routing operation)

     

    I guess my questions to you are:

     

    1) Do you feel there was any real improvement made in changing the routing engine?

    Hi Adam,

     

    I think so. Being able to backspace segments(hit the backspace key and

    you undo the previously laid segment) has been very useful for me. The

    idea behind the extra click is that you can determine on the fly where

    exactly you want the via to be, without having to commit to the end of

    the last segment you placed. It may seem like an extra click now but

    once push and shove comes into the picture(some time this year), you'll

    see that it beneficial to be able to carry the via around as you

    determine the best way to layout your signal. Keep in mind that now you

    can switch layers by using the spacebar and shift+spacebar keys which I

    find to be faster than the middle mouse click.

     

    2) What do you think about the other changes that have been made?

    I really like designblocks and I think its one of the strongest new

    features. The new GROUP mode and routing engine would be up there for me

    as well.

     

    This also brings up perhaps the biggest issue of all. Why was there not some sort of basic, easy to find tutorial highlighting some of the new features and changes to existing features? Something that would highlight the changes and offer some suggestions for using Eagle how it used to be? If Autodesk truly intends to have Eagle CAD remain a quality product, then their support and tutorials need a drastic improvement. Thus far I have been sorely disappointed.

     

    I'll own up to the tutorials thing. We do need to make more of those,

    there just wasn't any time before the release to do it.I was doing so

    many other things in preparation for it, I can only imagine what the

    rest of the team was up to.

     

    In the coming months you'll see more content up on our website showing

    how these new features can be leveraged to be more productive in EAGLE.

     

    Support wise I'm also trying to stay on top of the forums and e-mail as

    best as I can, the rest of the team is also doing their best. Feel free

    to post here or in the Autodesk EAGLE forum since that has the best

    chance right now of being spotted by support personnel.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

  • in reply to geralds

    On 2/4/2017 6:38 PM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:

    I think there is a fault in the software too.

    Bouncing, ok, but this was not my argument.

    I meant switching from one layer to the other - if - the wire was stopped

    AND i like routing again i must go a step of grid and then i can change the layer.

     

    I created a small video you can see what i mean.

    Please open this video with the Mozilla Firefox browser.

     

    With the old version i can start routing directly after changing the layer.

    Yes bouncing the  mouse contact also sleeping fingers can stop routing.

    But i like go forward at the place where i stopped, on the same layer or on an other layer.

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/215190

     

     

    Hi Gerald,

     

    I hope you're doing well. I saw something like this when I was first

    testing this release. We are releasing a bugfix release in the next few

    days.

     

    When that one is released please try it and let me know if the problem

    continues.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

  • in reply to geralds

    On 2/4/2017 6:38 PM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:

    I think there is a fault in the software too.

    Bouncing, ok, but this was not my argument.

    I meant switching from one layer to the other - if - the wire was stopped

    AND i like routing again i must go a step of grid and then i can change the layer.

     

    I created a small video you can see what i mean.

    Please open this video with the Mozilla Firefox browser.

     

    With the old version i can start routing directly after changing the layer.

    Yes bouncing the  mouse contact also sleeping fingers can stop routing.

    But i like go forward at the place where i stopped, on the same layer or on an other layer.

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/215190

     

     

    Hi Gerald,

     

    I hope you're doing well. I saw something like this when I was first

    testing this release. We are releasing a bugfix release in the next few

    days.

     

    When that one is released please try it and let me know if the problem

    continues.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>