Special Promotion for EAGLE PCB Users

It is tempting.

I have a full Eagle license and probably will be okay for about a year. The big question for me is which package will be the next highly popular package? The ability to share designs with a large user base is important.

Eagle has a huge user base compared to other packages. What will happen to this user base?

I expect their user base to erode substantially due to the new license scheme, but will they hang on to enough market share to make it a market leader in terms of seats?

The door is open for others to take some of the user base, but are any other packages attractive enough to take a really significant share?

I think it will still be a tough decision in a year when I will be considering choices as I am not keen on the subscription model.

I'm not averse to subscription but the significant cost increase for 6-layer with EAGLE means CircuitStudio will be lower cost over a couple of years, based on risk assessment that 6-layer may be used for a few months per year.

However what's putting me off CircuitStudio is that when I tried their DXP product many years ago for a complete, reasonably complex project, it had far lower productivity than EAGLE. I could have done the job in half the time with EAGLE. I hope that has changed, but from the screenshots it doesn't seem to look much different. We give a lot of time learning how to use a CAD package, and the hope is it is in exchange for improving productivity.

To compound that the second reason I get cold feet with putting effort into CircuitStudio is that there have been many comments from users about strange impacts due to CircuitStudio being a deliberately cut-down product. Just one example that was concerning to me was that polygon priority could not be controlled except by the order that polygons are created. To me this seems like trying to deliberately slow down the user. They may as well have nag screens to watch an advert in exchange to allow a user to type in a priority, it is that silly.

So, for me I can't find an attractive package and I'm holding out until I hear that some of the deliberate cut-down functionality doesn't slow down productivity, and hearing more about ways that the work effort to create pads and parts and schematics and layout can be as fast compared to EAGLE, not just for CircuitStudio but for other packages too (for me I've ruled out DipTrace, I can't recall the reason but it was based on the information on their website).

So like you, I'm also waiting out for this year and postponing the decision.

Shabaz, I agree with your point, but - I try always to be pragmatic - I suggest you pass over your prejudice and try a new version. We all know very well your great capabilities in testing and reporting new products so your opinion on the behaviour of last version of this product swill be very appreciated.

BTW, I confirm that one of the bigger lacks of Altium is just the single-platform support. The other non-trivial limitation is implicitly explained in the minimal requirements for the software installation:

• Windows 7 or Windows 8 (32-bit or 64-bit)
• Intel Core i5 processor or equivalent
• 8 GByte RAM
• 3 GByte hard disk space (Install + User Files)
• NVIDIA GeForce GT 640 series or AMD Radeon HD 7770, 1024MB (or more) graphics card or better, supporting DirectX 9.0c and Shader model 3 (or later)
• Dual monitors with at least 1680x1050 (widescreen) or 1600x1200 (4:3) screen resolution
• USB2.0 port if connecting to 3D Mouse
• 3D mouse for 3D PCB design, such as the Space Navigator

(got from the Altium site). This means that with smaller machines this does not works fine? Or does not work at all? What do they mean for the 3D mouse availability? I regulalrly design 3D components with complex CAD applications (e.g. Rhino and more complex too) with just a mouse or a touch or a Wacom tablet with no difficult...

Enrico

Hi Enrico,

Enrico Miglino wrote:

 

You specific case has perfectly sense, Rachel. And you are just in the right direction, IMHO, to optimise and get the maximum possible from your previous investments. I don't think your view on Eagle is not popular, especially as it has perfect justifications. The point is - and this IS the point of this discussion as far as I see - that this licensing method is not so "politically correct" in my opinion, just because of there are many users like you that are in front of an obliged choice. But there are better ways to affiliate customers I think. What will make the difference is what happens with the trend of new users of this platform.

Agreed. For me the subscription only model without the ability to make it perpetual for versions up to your current version after your subscription expires is not good and it's the main stick Altium is using to leverage converting EAGLE users to Altium (both Designer for pro's and CS for lower end). Autodesk could fix this and confiscate Altiums stick by giving us that perpetual possibility and IMHO it would increase their revenue as it wouldn't reduce then number of subscriptions, it would gain a lot more. They could do it in such a way that the cost of making perpetual was reduced the longer you'd been an active subscriber so people wouldn't take out a 1 month subscription just so they could get a cheap perpetual license. Fix that and add in a couple of other licensing options I highlighted above and most of the issues will be resolved and we can get back to being a largely happy EAGLE community once more.....

Enrico Miglino wrote:

 

BTW, despite these two options, EAGLE and Altium what alternatives do you think are at the same level and reliable?

I don't know much of any other tools at the level of EAGLE or Circuit Studio. There is KiCAD which I think still needs work to be a proper contender (but is free, cross platform and currently has some great features that EAGLE doesn't in terms of routing), there is DipTrace but the Mac version is the windows version wrapped up in Wine which is just not right. Altium Designer is a big step up from where EAGLE is currently and the competitive products there are from Mentor Graphics (e.g. Expedition, PADS, Boardstation, etc) or Cadence (e.g. Allegro). In between these there is OrCAD which is nearer to EAGLE end than the Altium end. It's ok, I have used it previously and it works but it wasn't without it's issues if I recall and again it's Windows only.

So for me the most reliable option is still EAGLE (assuming they fix the crash causing bugs and linux incompatibilities they introduced at v8.0.0!) and if the new routing engine and all the other features that have been touted in various posts come to fruition, then it'll take a big leap forward in closing the gap to the high end tools in the next 6-12 months. There are a lot of "if's" there, but I think there are a lot of opportunities if Autodesk step up and sort things out properly, both in terms of licensing concessions as far as already promised (and maybe hopefully a little bit more!) and in terms of adding high end functionality.

Best Regards,

Rachael

I agree completely with your last sentence here. Either buying the software outright or paying a subscription goes towards paying for the development. I'm not sure why you think I thought otherwise?

None at all, I hope you agreed It was just a confirmation; as far as you wrote, it seemed different (but I was almost sure not).

Maybe I just have a less cynical view? Or maybe I like to try and find the positives rather than dwelling on the negatives? From what I have read, I don't think Autodesk want to push the Maker community away but I can understand why a lot won't like the cost of the new subscription model as it stands with no cheaper non-commercial version available to give makers more than the freeware version can offer. I'm hopeful they will do something more to try and mitigate this, only time will tell....

 

My view on EAGLE is clearly not a popular one but I've invested quite a bit into EAGLE and despite the new licensing model it's not going to be better for me to invest a whole bunch more time and money going to another tool as EAGLE works fine, and I have a v7 license to fall back on if needs be. I've not updated to v8 yet but I probably will when the newer routing features come out.

You specific case has perfectly sense, Rachel. And you are just in the right direction, IMHO, to optimise and get the maximum possible from your previous investments. I don't think your view on Eagle is not popular, especially as it has perfect justifications. The point is - and this IS the point of this discussion as far as I see - that this licensing method is not so "politically correct" in my opinion, just because of there are many users like you that are in front of an obliged choice. But there are better ways to affiliate customers I think. What will make the difference is what happens with the trend of new users of this platform.

BTW, despite these two options, EAGLE and Altium what alternatives do you think are at the same level and reliable?

Enrico

I agree completely with your last sentence here. Either buying the software outright or paying a subscription goes towards paying for the development. I'm not sure why you think I thought otherwise?

None at all, I hope you agreed It was just a confirmation; as far as you wrote, it seemed different (but I was almost sure not).

Maybe I just have a less cynical view? Or maybe I like to try and find the positives rather than dwelling on the negatives? From what I have read, I don't think Autodesk want to push the Maker community away but I can understand why a lot won't like the cost of the new subscription model as it stands with no cheaper non-commercial version available to give makers more than the freeware version can offer. I'm hopeful they will do something more to try and mitigate this, only time will tell....

 

My view on EAGLE is clearly not a popular one but I've invested quite a bit into EAGLE and despite the new licensing model it's not going to be better for me to invest a whole bunch more time and money going to another tool as EAGLE works fine, and I have a v7 license to fall back on if needs be. I've not updated to v8 yet but I probably will when the newer routing features come out.

You specific case has perfectly sense, Rachel. And you are just in the right direction, IMHO, to optimise and get the maximum possible from your previous investments. I don't think your view on Eagle is not popular, especially as it has perfect justifications. The point is - and this IS the point of this discussion as far as I see - that this licensing method is not so "politically correct" in my opinion, just because of there are many users like you that are in front of an obliged choice. But there are better ways to affiliate customers I think. What will make the difference is what happens with the trend of new users of this platform.

BTW, despite these two options, EAGLE and Altium what alternatives do you think are at the same level and reliable?

Enrico

Hi Enrico,

Enrico Miglino wrote:

 

You specific case has perfectly sense, Rachel. And you are just in the right direction, IMHO, to optimise and get the maximum possible from your previous investments. I don't think your view on Eagle is not popular, especially as it has perfect justifications. The point is - and this IS the point of this discussion as far as I see - that this licensing method is not so "politically correct" in my opinion, just because of there are many users like you that are in front of an obliged choice. But there are better ways to affiliate customers I think. What will make the difference is what happens with the trend of new users of this platform.

Agreed. For me the subscription only model without the ability to make it perpetual for versions up to your current version after your subscription expires is not good and it's the main stick Altium is using to leverage converting EAGLE users to Altium (both Designer for pro's and CS for lower end). Autodesk could fix this and confiscate Altiums stick by giving us that perpetual possibility and IMHO it would increase their revenue as it wouldn't reduce then number of subscriptions, it would gain a lot more. They could do it in such a way that the cost of making perpetual was reduced the longer you'd been an active subscriber so people wouldn't take out a 1 month subscription just so they could get a cheap perpetual license. Fix that and add in a couple of other licensing options I highlighted above and most of the issues will be resolved and we can get back to being a largely happy EAGLE community once more.....

Enrico Miglino wrote:

 

BTW, despite these two options, EAGLE and Altium what alternatives do you think are at the same level and reliable?

I don't know much of any other tools at the level of EAGLE or Circuit Studio. There is KiCAD which I think still needs work to be a proper contender (but is free, cross platform and currently has some great features that EAGLE doesn't in terms of routing), there is DipTrace but the Mac version is the windows version wrapped up in Wine which is just not right. Altium Designer is a big step up from where EAGLE is currently and the competitive products there are from Mentor Graphics (e.g. Expedition, PADS, Boardstation, etc) or Cadence (e.g. Allegro). In between these there is OrCAD which is nearer to EAGLE end than the Altium end. It's ok, I have used it previously and it works but it wasn't without it's issues if I recall and again it's Windows only.

So for me the most reliable option is still EAGLE (assuming they fix the crash causing bugs and linux incompatibilities they introduced at v8.0.0!) and if the new routing engine and all the other features that have been touted in various posts come to fruition, then it'll take a big leap forward in closing the gap to the high end tools in the next 6-12 months. There are a lot of "if's" there, but I think there are a lot of opportunities if Autodesk step up and sort things out properly, both in terms of licensing concessions as far as already promised (and maybe hopefully a little bit more!) and in terms of adding high end functionality.

Best Regards,

Rachael