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Raspberry Pi Forum RG1 1.8v regulator
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Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 231 replies
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Related

RG1 1.8v regulator

Former Member
Former Member over 13 years ago

Ok, so in a different thread I threatened to remove RG1 and do some current measurements on it's output after seeing those thermal images that show it's not generating any heat...

 

Well, I did it tonight. Some photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/selsinork/RPi18v

 

The jumper pins in the output let me either just put a jumper on and verify the Pi boots ok, or wire a multimeter in series to get some current readings.

 

The results were interesting to say the least. I had to go back and check I was reading the multimeter correctly, that it wasn't broken etc.

 

On initial power up I see a negative current for a second or so which then reverses to about 0.5mA (yes half a milliamp, that's not a typo) for a few seconds while we get the first sd-card accesses. Once we're booted and sitting at the login prompt the current reading fluctuates from around 0.001mA to maybe 0.04mA. 

 

I'm using the 40mA range on a decent Fluke multimeter, so I've no reason to doubt the results. There's obviously going to be some inaccuracy down at that level due to length of meter leads etc, but the result is fairly clear.  You'll understand why I was checking the meter was working and I was reading it correctly though image

 

 

So from there onto the next test, lets try completely disconnecting RG1 and see if the Pi boots while using the LAN9512 1.8v 'output'.  Yes it does! 

 

I think that's reasonably good indication that jamodio got it spot on, the lan9512 shouldn't be connected to the 1.8v plane and it's heat problems are going to be largely due to supplying current on it's 1.8v filter pin that it was never designed to do.

 

So anyone willing to pull RG1 off a Pi and verify my results ?

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago

    I think it may be time to contact SMSC, and find out whether it's OK

    to use the LAN9512 chip's 1.8V "output" pin to power other devices

    in parallel with another LDO regulator.

     

    The datasheet, p. 41, at:

       http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads_Public/Data_Sheets/9512.pdf

    shows power dissipation of 763mW.  But that probably doesn't account

    for this scenario.  SMSC's tech support is available at:

     

    https://www2.smsc.com/mkt/intforms.nsf/faemail

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I think it may be time to contact SMSC, and find out whether it's OK

    to use the LAN9512 chip's 1.8V "output" pin to power other devices

    in parallel with another LDO regulator.

    If it was acceptable to use it as an output I'd expect to see something in the DC specs to tell you how much current it can supply.  I'd also suspect that running it in parallel with another regulator isn't going to be a good idea regardless.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Selsinork,

     

    >If it was acceptable to use it as an output I'd expect to see something in the DC specs to tell you how much current it can supply.  I'd also suspect that running it in parallel with another regulator isn't going to be a good idea regardless.

     

    right.  But I think in order to actually get this fixed it's going to take more than suspicions that there's a problem. If SMSC can be prompted to issue a clarification, then Element14 might take notice, and if they do, then maybe RPF might take notice.  Otherwise it looks like they will go on indefinitely saying the chip may be running a little warmer than expected, but it's not hurting anything.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Selsinork,

     

    >If it was acceptable to use it as an output I'd expect to see something in the DC specs to tell you how much current it can supply.  I'd also suspect that running it in parallel with another regulator isn't going to be a good idea regardless.

     

    right.  But I think in order to actually get this fixed it's going to take more than suspicions that there's a problem. If SMSC can be prompted to issue a clarification, then Element14 might take notice, and if they do, then maybe RPF might take notice.  Otherwise it looks like they will go on indefinitely saying the chip may be running a little warmer than expected, but it's not hurting anything.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Well IMHO the simple fact that you can take RG1 off the board and have the Pi still work is good enough proof that there's a problem.

     

    I don't expect the RPF to listen, we've seen what happens to anyone suggesting there's a design flaw over on their forum. I think the best we can hope for is that Pete is still watching here and might take a look.

     

    Unless you have some decent technical contact within farnell/element14 who can objectively assess what we've found and then arrange an official approach to the RPF through avenues not available to us I don't see how to do much more.

    Even with an official statement from SMSC you still need to get past the PR dept and get it into the hands of an engineer who's prepared to listen.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Selsinork,

     

    >Unless you have some decent technical contact within farnell/element14 who can objectively assess what we've found and then arrange an official approach to the RPF through avenues not available to us I don't see how to do much more.

     

    Maybe Drew is following this thread and can get the right people involved.  I'm convinced that Pete isn't listening.  I think anyone who does pay attention will need to get clarification from SMSC, so might as well get the ball rolling on that.  Otherwise, I can imagine what a conversation with tech support might be like.

     

    tech support:  how can I help you?

    customer:  I removed RG1 and my board still works.  That seems to be proof that it's broken.

    tech support;  you say your board still works?

    customer:  yup.

    tech support: well, we're here to help customers whose board isn't working.

    customer: but I removed RG1.

    tech support: well, we're here to help customers who haven't removed components.

    customer: but the board runs hot

    tech support: we advise allowing plenty of ventilation.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I'm convinced that Pete isn't listening.

    Yeah, I checked his profie on here yesterday. Doesn't look like he's posted anything for 3+ months.

     

    My only two thoughts were to either PM Pete directly on here, (but it seems that you need the recipient to approve you as a contact before you can do that), or to try a pm to Eben over on the other forums. The problem is going to be picking a subject line that doesn't get lost in the noise, and I'm an engineer so useless at that sort of thing image

     

    You're right that the tech support route just isn't going  to work.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I just posted a summary of the issue in the experts forum here:

     

    http://www.element14.com/community/thread/19261?tstart=0

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Just adding it here for those not following all the different threads..

     

    I asked SMSC tech support:

     

    "I'm evaluating a design using your LAN9512 device. Can you tell me if it's

    acceptable to use VDD18CORE to supply 1.8v to external devices and if so what

    current can be supplied ?

    The datasheet only describes it as "Digital Core +1.8V Power Supply Output" but

    offers no details on if it's useable to power external devices or what current

    it can supply."

     

    Their reply:

    We have received your request for Technical Support.  The following reviews.

    SMSC Technical Support Request # 534992-DD1256

    31/07/2012 10:06 ISaturle: 

    Hi Iain,

     

    VDD18 is not intended to power external nets.  Equally, it's not intended to ever be driven by external sources. 

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