USB discussions getting a bit heated

Those threads are terrible They downplay most of the problems people have encountered and add confusion.

But it's a timebomb waiting to go off...

I guess user Kernel sums it up pretty nicely http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12097&start=197

 

Frankly even though the Foundation people are not making profit on Raspi, I think it doesn't make them any less responsible for the quality of the device they designed and have been (indirectly) selling.

 

Regardless of the cause (software, power, design) of Pi's problems, they are frustrating to deal with and are likely to cause many to lose interest at some point (even children, or perhaps especially them).

 

Those threads are terrible They downplay most of the problems people have encountered and add confusion.

Thing is, the issues are complex. A lot of the confusion is being caused by people who mostly don't have a grasp of either the hardware or software problems.  Lets face it, with a usb IP block that nobody seems to have much information about, we're all in the dark and what makes it tick may as well be black magic

Still, at this point the Pi really is a development board - there's lots of development happening and various people working on fixing issues. Unfortunately due to all the hype there's lots of them landing in the hands of people who are used to a device that's been in development for years with budgets in the billions and expect everything to 'just work' instantly, instead they have a device that was designed to a strict budget with all the compromises that entails. This was bound to cause some friction.

I suspect the RPF was very much unprepared for the amount of destructive stress testing a couple of hundred thousand users can do in such a short time with devices that were never thought of during the design.

selsinork wrote:

 

I suspect the RPF was very much unprepared for the amount of destructive stress testing a couple of hundred thousand users can do in such a short time with devices that were never thought of during the design.

I think everyone would agree that the Foundation was unprepared.  The Pi doesn't work properly even with very common devices and very unambitious setups that work on all other systems tested.

It should be pointed out that this isn't a case of the community being over-demanding, and the complaints aren't coming from people intent on destructive stress testing.  They come from ordinary users who are expecting (shock horror!) that when they attach a common USB device and it is recognized by an available driver, that it should then work.

Morgaine.

It should be pointed out that this isn't a case of the community being over-demanding, and the complaints aren't coming from people intent on destructive stress testing.  They come from ordinary users who are expecting (shock horror!) that when they attach a common USB device and it is recognized by an available driver, that it should then work.

and as any decent engineer knows, best way to test your device is to put it into the hands of those ordinary users.. Agreed that they're not deliberately going to do destructive stress testing, but often that's the result as they'll think of things to do with it and ways to use it that you didn't think of and never designed it to cope with.  Most stuff indended for consumer hands would go through many iterations of that before a general release. The Pi didn't, it has some issues. Surprise !

over-demanding ?  expecting random, even if common, untested devices to work ?  IMHO maybe some people are expecting too much, it's easy enough to find a common usb device where the manufacturer provides zero linux/mac support as he designed it for windows and there's either no community linux driver or a very poor one. Funnily enough those are usually usb wifi adaptors (or synopsis usb otg controllers)

I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if all the Pi were recalled, to be replaced with an OlinuXino or Beagleboard. Would either of them fare differently in the hands of 300K+ ordinary users ?  I'm sure the issues would be different, but equally sure that someone would be complaining about something.

Hopefully if there ever is a Pi-v2.0 some lessons will have been learned from this time round on all sides. Not holding my breath on that one

selsinork wrote:

 

over-demanding ?  expecting random, even if common, untested devices to work ?

Yes, fully expected to work, if they're class-compliant USB devices.  That's why we have standards in this business, so that you don't have to test each device individually with each different brand of computer.

Morgaine Dinova wrote:

 

It should be pointed out that this isn't a case of the community being over-demanding, and the complaints aren't coming from people intent on destructive stress testing.  They come from ordinary users who are expecting (shock horror!) that when they attach a common USB device and it is recognized by an available driver, that it should then work.

JMO/YMMV: As far as I know, this is still the developer version of RasPi, so anyone who buys a RasPi should realize they're participating in a beta test and that problems will most likely occur (and recur due to regression) and they should help the community by reporting problems and work-arounds.  Part of the fun, n'est-ce pas?

From the forum comments at raspberrypi.org, it's clear that lots of people bought a RasPi without realizing it's a beta product.  I think it's fair to criticize the RasPowersThatBe for not having been more energetic about making this clear, but it can be hard to get the tech media to report tech accurately.  If they've got more than 50% right, you're in great shape.  The RasPTB may have just figured that "hey, we told you so, how can you imagine that an uncased board with no power supply could be anything other than beta?"

I would hope the USB issues get ironed out in time.  We'll see.  Maybe they'll end up with permanent beta software.

JMO/YMMV

Morgaine Dinova wrote:

 

It should be pointed out that this isn't a case of the community being over-demanding, and the complaints aren't coming from people intent on destructive stress testing.  They come from ordinary users who are expecting (shock horror!) that when they attach a common USB device and it is recognized by an available driver, that it should then work.

JMO/YMMV: As far as I know, this is still the developer version of RasPi, so anyone who buys a RasPi should realize they're participating in a beta test and that problems will most likely occur (and recur due to regression) and they should help the community by reporting problems and work-arounds.  Part of the fun, n'est-ce pas?

From the forum comments at raspberrypi.org, it's clear that lots of people bought a RasPi without realizing it's a beta product.  I think it's fair to criticize the RasPowersThatBe for not having been more energetic about making this clear, but it can be hard to get the tech media to report tech accurately.  If they've got more than 50% right, you're in great shape.  The RasPTB may have just figured that "hey, we told you so, how can you imagine that an uncased board with no power supply could be anything other than beta?"

I would hope the USB issues get ironed out in time.  We'll see.  Maybe they'll end up with permanent beta software.

JMO/YMMV