512MB deliberate deception?

Maybe you're crediting the Foundation with too much nous here! Alternate senarios include that:

1) they are too busy attending industry award ceremonies, dinners and whatnot to know what's going on, or:

2) they simply don't have that much say in their own product any more.

They have always taken the "spec subject to change without notice" disclaimer a little too seriously in the past, but it's obvious that as soon as a user receives a new rev x.1 board it's going to be all over the forum anyway - so why persist with the secrecy, unless manufacturing partners (who have done the heavy lifting in terms of investment) are calling the shots? [/JMO mode}

coder27 wrote:

 

On October 15, Liz wrote:
"This has, as you've probably guessed by now, been in the works for months. (In fact, the day we visited the factory last month, all the Pis being made there were 512MB ones already - we had to be very careful which photos we used from the visit.) "

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=19963&start=75

 

However, On September 5, 2012 at 3:59PM when Ozy asked:

"are there any plans for GPU, CPU, or RAM updates in the pipeline? "

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1929

 

JamesH at 4:00PM answered:

"Not at present."

 

and Liz confirmed at 4:00PM

"Not at the moment, no."

Well, one way to intepret the seemingly-contradictory statements is that on September 5, 2012 the 512MB upgrade was no longer "a plan" but "in progress".  A misleading answer, yes, but not an outright lie.

Can you tell I've been paying way too much attention to what candidates are saying in the upcoming USA election?

They are just inexperienced with production and PR.  Everything from the sudden switch the night of the launch to having outsourced the fulfillment to the two suppliers to the continued shortages and variation amongst suppliers.  I noticed there has also been a shift on the Gertboard and the 512MB version issues and the seeming inability to ever ship a Model A board, to the USB and overclocking issues.  That's a lot of failure to execute and communicate.

I've done a bit of math on what it takes to have an RPi fully operational for a school, and you aren't far away from the price of the new ARM Chromebooks.  And if initial capital is a problem, Google also has monthly leased options.  The question really is what you want to do with these things.  If you just want programming, the RPi has a lot of drawbacks because of what it doesn't come with (case, SD, mouse, keyboard, screen, WiFi, power).  They always say this stuff is just lying around, but it really isn't lying around at that scale for schools (like it might be at your house for one or two RPis).  And the stuff usually lying around is VGA monitors, PS/2 keyboards and mice.

I figure if you have to spend around $60 total on a case, SD, mouse, keyboard, WiFi, power, then $35 for the RPi (still no $25 model), and $100 for an HDMI monitor - you're right at $195 - so you're in Nexus 7 territory (the same price point as the OLPC from 3 years ago - I have one of the originals, they are ARM-based now, but there is no domestic purchase program any more) - $50 more and you're at the new ARM Chromebook.

If you are going to deal with the GPIO, then the RPi is attractive.  But remember, the BBC, Spectrum, Commodore 64 - none of these were widely used for GPIO applications for early computer education.

None of this discussion is welcome on the official board, because it is concern trolling or not considered constructive criticism.

But it remains that we have yet to see much coherent progress on the educational goals front of the RPF except getting the device in hands out there and well-publicized.  For that, they do deserve some kudos.  But to achieve the real goals of having more people be exposed and potentially be more prepared for University...

I wonder if people think the same on other products such as iPad, iPad2, iPad3 ? I don't think the companies are trying to fool anyone, there are processes everywhere that sometime take their courses.  Of course, they have to find way to sell all of their products (old & new) to recoup the engineering and marketing costs, nothing wrong with that.  I am glad that RPF see improvements and do it, I have no problem having both RPi Rev 1 And Rev2, similar to I have iPad and iPad 2.  That's the price people pay for chasing after latest technologies.

As for RPi, one can stop buying RPi Rev 2 right now and wait for few years when all the bugs have been looked at...but then maybe the price won't be merely $35 any more.  Really, we blow much more on a dinner sometime.

Keep up the good work, RPF, I am impressed and having so much fun trying many experiments with your product(s).

just my 2c

@Cade: it is interesting to muse on the hardware cost and imo the cost per pupil of any hardware is not that big a deal compared with the costs of say, putting together a meaningful curriculum and providing support (physical and intellectual) for it, training a country's worth of teachers to effectively put over an technically demanding discipline and all the other stuff...

The Pi's gpio is enticing, but meaningful hardware interfacing can already be done with e.g. Arduino without any reinvention of the wheel, so I agree that the Pi isn't a "must have" on that front either. The UK taxpayer is already paying handsomely for classrooms full of grown-up PCs and I absolutely do not buy the "we can't let kids use them for anything more advanced than spreadsheets, 'cos they'll break them" argument. Phooey! The exact same (and lazy) argument applies to  classrooms full of Pi anyway - they'll all end up networked to remote storage at least. Imagine the logistics of handling / synchronising all those SD cards otherwise!

Anyway, the 512M thing was a pleasant surprise, even if it demonstrates that any Foundation announcements / confirmations / denials etc. are best taken with a pinch of salt.

> They have explained that this was done because they were afraid that their sales would dry up because many potential customers would prefer not to buy the 256MB version if a 512MB version [...]

Commonly know as "The Osborne Effect" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect).

The bump up to 512MB was certainly expected by myself--- the 256 MiB part would be EoL eventually, and even before then, the cost of the 512 part would match on production price.

I think it was the Android porting announcement that blew the cover on the impending memory upgrade-- there was no way a 256MB RPi could demo Android like it did, and when they wouldn't give out much details of the porting effort, it certainly suggested that they had 512 MB hardware, even if hand-spun engineering test boards.

Ah yes, Android. Very educational.

Exactly.  Until the RPF starts working on educational software or curriculum or actual promotions into education which aren't teacher-originated, I'm holding my judgement on success in their underlying mission. The RPF has goals in the educational realm, and as a non-profit, that mission typically has to come first.

All this talk of Osborne effects and _business_ terminology, seems rather at odds with that.  As far as I understand it, the idea that the RPF had _anything_ to lose by pre-announcing is silly.  They get a portion of proceeds of sales.  It seems to me it would be the manufacturers who would be left holding the bag, since the RPF would just start getting proceeds of sales of the already available 512MB model.  Suppliers who shouldn't have much in inventory anyway, since they are hard to get hold of right now.

This also differs from the Osborne effect - those of us who were around then - they pre-announced a totally new product which wasn't available and wasn't even coming into the pipeline.  Then they ran out of cash flow before the new product could go into production, because people stopped buying them to wait.  Given that the RPF is not funding production of these devices and the new model has very minimal changes, the comparison with Osborning is a bit far off the mark.

I'm not saying that they are a "con-profit" (we have a lot of experience with those in New Orleans, many of which are in the educational technology milieu, and they typically specialize in secretively taking in public and private funds and producing little or nothing of what they claim they will be producing, all while effectively subsidizing someone's personal business or real-estate ventures).  But I am saying that the goals of this charity (and supporting things like media centers and Android which don't have good clear connection to the original goals) seem to be getting rather broad and nebulous.  I'm not saying that it's not worthwhile to contribute generally to low-cost, general purpose computing devices which are relatively open.  But at that point, a lot of companies (BeagleBoard, Adafruit, APC etc) in this space who already have an educational/hobbyist focus (as opposed to the Android MK802 market) could simply rebrand themselves as that kind of charity with little difference to what the RPF has currently produced.  The RPF has done a good job in engaging the public and arousing interest in this whole area, and that is a good thing.

> I think it was the Android porting announcement that blew the cover on the impending memory upgrade--

yes, as noted here:

http://www.element14.com/community/thread/19691?start=4

I think what happened is that Rev 2.0 was intended to include 512MB

along with the mounting holes and other changes.  Element14 was

apparently ready to deliver that combination around the beginning of September,

but RS didn't have anything at all to deliver for almost all of September.

There seems to have been some severe arm twisting, and as a result,

Element14 went ahead with a compromise 256MB Rev 2.0 temporarily,

and RS stuck with the original plan, waiting on Rev 2.0 until they were

ready with 512MB just this last week or so.

Jonathan Garrish wrote:

 

Ah yes, Android. Very educational.

You are responsible for a table covered in coffee stains.