Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd. finally announced

Eben Upton responded to my question "why were you terminated as a director of the Raspberry Pi Foundation?" here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4148983&cid=44722739

I like the part about resigning in order to separate the control of the two entities,

"though I continue to run the Foundation on a day-to-day basis".  I think the whole point

of requiring charities to publicly declare their trustees is so that the public is clear about

who is running the charity on a day-to-day basis.

I wonder what title he may have used since resigning when signing RPF contracts, if any?

They need to come down out of their Ivory towers in Cambridge and visit a few inner city schools to see how far the educational aims have really penetrated.

Actually, I think they would be the first to tell you that their educational release hasn't

been released, so no surprise they haven't penetrated education, and that the engineering,

manufacturing, and sales of the RPi has been handed off from the Foundation to a for-profit

subsidiary corporation that does not have education as the focus of its charter, as far as we know. 

They are working on areas where they have an advantage over BBB, such as XBMC,

to take advantage of the video capabilities.  Eben's recent Maker Faire talk mentioned

expanding out of their current niche into areas like ease-of-use for techno-phobic grandparents.

Pete Lomas wrote the opinion piece at about the time the corporate subsidiary was formed

in Sept 2012 that said they were selling out to sell a lot.  It wasn't clear at the time what that

was all about, but I think it's clear now.

What exactly do you think the Foundation worked on for 6 years?

Probably the organisation of many different people and large companies that were required to build the Raspberry Pi.  You know it is very difficult to get the support to build something from Broadcom or any other large Technology Businesses.

Do you think the Foundation was slaving away while Eben was working on his MBA?

I believe that the 'Foundation' at this stage was just himself, his wife (Liz) and two or three others.  I am also lead to believe that the work on the Raspberry Pi Project was periodic and cut into each individual's spare time.  So to answer your question... yes Eben would still be doing his MBA.

We have been told that the Foundation has been slaving away for the past year on various RPi developments, only to find out recently that it was actually

the for-profit RPi Trading subsidiary that was doing the development, and that the purpose of these developments was not in any way limited to education.

* purpose of these developments was not in any way limited to education.

So what?  The foundation's main focus is Education but they also have to look at other issues that may be related to the construction of the device itself.

You say they have worked for 6 years without any profit.  How do you know what

sort of income and expenditures the for-profit subsidiary has?  Certainly they have

not published any financial information.

No Financial Information because they have not been selling a product.  Sure they have made a bit of money but they do not have to disclose this information to the public.  They are a private organisation.  If they were a public company with many people owning it, it would be a different story.

So stop getting up in arms about the Foundation spliting into two divisions.  It is for the better anyway.    It allows them to employ people to do actual work rather than people having to do all the work ‘in their spare time’ as @JamesH likes to through around so often as an excuse for not fixing code.

PS: Have not read the last two posts and will do now!

coder27 wrote:

 

They need to come down out of their Ivory towers in Cambridge and visit a few inner city schools to see how far the educational aims have really penetrated.

Actually, I think they would be the first to tell you that their educational release hasn't

been released, so no surprise they haven't penetrated education, and that the engineering,

manufacturing, and sales of the RPi has been handed off from the Foundation to a for-profit

subsidiary corporation that does not have education as the focus of its charter, as far as we know. 

 

They are working on areas where they have an advantage over BBB, such as XBMC,

to take advantage of the video capabilities.  Eben's recent Maker Faire talk mentioned

expanding out of their current niche into areas like ease-of-use for techno-phobic grandparents.

 

Pete Lomas wrote the opinion piece at about the time the corporate subsidiary was formed

in Sept 2012 that said they were selling out to sell a lot.  It wasn't clear at the time what that

was all about, but I think it's clear now.

The best is still to come from the Foundation on the education site of things.

From the Foundation Webpage:

We don’t claim to have all the answers. We don’t think that the Raspberry Pi is a fix to all of the world’s computing issues; we do believe that we can be a catalyst. We want to see cheap, accessible, programmable computers everywhere; we actively encourage other companies to clone what we’re doing. We want to break the paradigm where without spending hundreds of pounds on a PC, families can’t use the internet. We want owning a truly personal computer to be normal for children, and we’re looking forward to what the future has in store.

Cian Byrne wrote:

 

We don’t claim to have all the answers. We don’t think that the Raspberry Pi is a fix to all of the world’s computing issues; we do believe that we can be a catalyst. We want to see cheap, accessible, programmable computers everywhere; we actively encourage other companies to clone what we’re doing. We want to break the paradigm where without spending hundreds of pounds on a PC, families can’t use the internet. We want owning a truly personal computer to be normal for children, and we’re looking forward to what the future has in store.

 

They don't actively encourage other companies to clone what they are doing, As has been mentioned many times before. I want to make an Arduino clone - fine, everything is open source - not with this.

I have bought a second user PC for less than the cost of a model A RasPi. That PC is more than capable of running Linux (In fact it is my music server), has a faster processor and more local storage, so no need to buy an SD card, or Power supply, both of which the Pi cannot work without. Not sure where the hundreds of pounds comments comes from or how it can be justified. For things most (normal) families will be using the internet for, the Pi is completely out of it's depth at. Do you really think they meant for this to be a computer for a family for £30?

Parents are being incorrectly hoodwinked into believing that if their son or daughter wants to 'learn computers' then the Pi is the answer - in many cases it isn't. Both in terms of cost, and more importantly in terms of support for educational reasons. Want to learn python? Download it onto the family PC. If it was, 'get a Pi, download the fully integrated documentation that we have provided to link into the ICT course you child is doing and oh, here is a website where your child can talk and learn from others like him' I would be completely behind that sentiment.

Pete Lomas would appear to be correct about selling out. Running XBMC better is not, in any way I can see, and educational goal.

So stop getting up in arms about the Foundation spliting into two divisions.  It is for the better anyway.    It allows them to employ people to do actual work rather than people having to do all the work ‘in their spare time’ as @JamesH likes to through around so often as an excuse for not fixing code.

Nobody is getting up in arms about the Foundation splitting into two divisions. 

People are getting up in arms about the formation of a for-profit company without

making it clear what they are doing, for over a year, while claiming and allowing others

on their website to claim that it's all about charity and education, and claiming that they are mostly

unpaid volunteers because charities have strict rules prohibiting paying trustees and spouses.

It would be one thing if when they split they had announced that the RPi is no longer

being developed, made, and sold by an educational charity solely for educational purposes,

but instead is being developed, made, and sold by a for-profit subsidiary company for

more general purposes that may have little to do with education.  But even as recently

as Eben's LinuxCon and Maker Faire talks a few weeks ago, he was introduced as

executive director of a charity, a position he resigned in Dec 2012, with no mention

of the Trading company that he actually is the CEO of.

JUST leave it alone and let us R-pi users have fun,,, let the politics go their way... Don't F**k up a good thing,,, ok ?    Thanks.. Chuck Smith

Just let it be

I enjoy the advent of the Raspberry Pi and I have given it to four other people to play with and develop.   I have been involved with computers since the 1970's.   Just let it evolve for god's sake.

But I do enjoy children bickering about who gets what credit and for what ??   It's entertaining !!   

If you do not like the game,  pick up your marbles and leave it alone !!

Otherwise, help develop it for the users!!!

Chuck Smith

Every project needs a front man/woman,,, so Eben is ok.   He is a human and seems to have good morals about a project that he knows takes hundreds if not thousands of good people.  Leave it alone,,, let the R-Pi project grow and grow !!

Chuck smith

some very nice men and women put together this Raspberry- Pi expedition,, and I think they have done a very nice job of it so far !!!  Congratulations !!  Now all the lawyers and anti- R-pi people are coming out like rats looking to destroy all they can .... WHY ?  I ask Why ?    Why not join up and get on the bandwagon and make it bigger and cheaper and of course smarter !!   Other developers can get their Kudos too,,, just hook up and show users cool projects,   

Chuck Smith

some very nice men and women put together this Raspberry- Pi expedition,, and I think they have done a very nice job of it so far !!!  Congratulations !!  Now all the lawyers and anti- R-pi people are coming out like rats looking to destroy all they can .... WHY ?  I ask Why ?    Why not join up and get on the bandwagon and make it bigger and cheaper and of course smarter !!   Other developers can get their Kudos too,,, just hook up and show users cool projects,   

Chuck Smith

Every project needs a front man/woman,,, so Eben is ok.

Why not join up and get on the bandwagon

I think the point you missed is that there is not just one project, there are two.

There is not just one bandwagon, there are two.

There is not just one board of directors, there are two.

There is not just one charter, there are two.

There is not just one CEO, there are two.

There is not just one bank account, there are two.

One project involves an educational charity which is lobbying the UK govt

regarding educational policies, and is developing educational videos and other

materials.  The other project involves making and selling inexpensive small

computers for a variety of purposes, many of which have nothing to do with education.

You only see one spokesman, one website, one FAQ, one "about us", etc., and for over a year

did not hear the RPi Trading company's charter or operations explained, even though it had

the majority of the employees and activity.  You may think the resulting confusion is

a good thing, or at least par for the course, but I respectfully disagree.

coder27,   This is Chuck Smith responding.

I love the Raspberry-pi and what it is doing for kids and adults.

I realize I do not get involved with all the politics and laws and trading and money.

All I am trying to get across is .. Why not let it run,,, support it,, make it work,, set up classes for kids to program on it,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  just keep the thing going !!!!     Stay the Course !!!!   I was even thinking of organizing a class at the local school for kids to learn R-pi.  It is catching on !!!!

The competitors can jump on too.

Why Not ??   You guys got a good thing going,, why let some lawyers , politicians and greedy people ruin it ??

Chuck Smith

All I am trying to get across is .. Why not let it run,,, support it,, make it work,, set up classes for kids to program on it,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  just keep the thing going !!!!     Stay the Course !!!!   I was even thinking of organizing a class at the local school for kids to learn R-pi.  It is catching on !!!!

why let some lawyers , politicians and greedy people ruin it ??

I think you and I may have a different threshold on what kinds of things

should be overlooked in the interest of kids learning to program.

I don't believe there is any sort of crisis involving a shortage of suitable

computers for kids to learn to program.  I think just about any alternative PC

would be as good or better.  There was a drop in applications at Cambridge

and other schools, but that can be easily attributed to the bursting of the

tech bubble in 2000, and to the many subsequent layoffs due to the ease of

outsourcing to low-wage countries, rather than to any perceived inability for PCs

to support programming.

The R-pi offers a challenge to kids !!!  Anyone can buy a super laptop off the shelves these days,  but does not have a clue how it was put together and how it works.   The R-pi puts a light bulb in a kids head,, Heck no one is going to tell him how to set  it up,, it is HIS to do.     Like when I was a kid in the 60's,,,  I stole my sisters old roller skates,  then got in my dad's work shop and cut them in half.   Then a buddy of mine got a board and we cut it to fit the rollers,,then bolted the rollers on,,,  then we tested it,,, reworked it,,, painted it,,, then all of a sudden,,, Walla,,, a homemade skateboard !!!    Heck,, it was better than buying one off the shelf,, and we learned a lot of things !!   ( at the time they didn't have skateboards,  we made them ourselves for kicks )  

But do ya get my drift ??

Chuck Smith

But do ya get my drift ??

No, sorry I don't.  I can see how an RPi can be used to teach programming,

but not much differently from any other slow linux box.  The hardware isn't made to be

taken apart, you can't even upgrade the memory like on a standard PC.

Since most everything is integrated on the SoC, you can't understand the hardware

by pointing to discrete components, other than connectors and such. 

If you want to use PWM or ADC, an Arduino or BBB is probably better.

I know that it is difficult to communicate with text and words over a long distance and each of us having a unique perspective of how things work,  I apologize for that.    You are more than welcome to visit me sometime, or a group of you.   I live alone in a 4 bedroom home in Glasgow, Delaware in USA.  

My house is kinda a Man-house,  meaning that I put things where ever I want.  But I do keep things very clean.   I got little projects laying around in the rooms.   I got one table for my R-pi and books.   On another table I am putting together a model of an airplane called an A-10 Warthog,  it was a tank killer in world war II.  On another table I have water color painting projects,,, and so on and so on      I am really naive with the R-pi at this point,, but I ran into a R-pi club member (makers ).. so i may learn more soon.   I know all the basics of most computers,    I am just happy to see the r-pi cheap enough for kids.

Chuck Smith

I beg to differ too.   I got a 7 port USB port   and I have all the memory upgrade I want.   and I just bought that Chip Kit Pi  which allows me to hook up to other devices.   so there are possibilities out there,, huh ? 

Chuck Smith

A-10 Warthog,  it was a tank killer in world war II. 

Desert Storm as well.

yes.. the pilots and the ground troops love the A-10 warthog,,, comes in fast or slow and does its job.

I think the USA armed forces are going to keep it around,,, of course with some upgrades.

Chuck Smith

BTW, coder27,, where are u located,,, roundabout ? and name ?    My personal email is STARSON35@AOL.COM

and I have all the memory upgrade I want.

I think you missed my point.

I wasn't implying that the RPi had insufficient memory.

On a standard PC, kids can have all sorts of fun taking it apart and

reassembling, and learning about the different hardware functions,

like you mentioned taking skates apart.  You can take out the memory

and replace it with faster or denser memory, or just take it all apart to

scare your parents and then put it back together.

In contrast, the RPi memory can't be fiddled with.

(suitable safety precautions should of course be followed).