Raspberry Pi 2 - does it hit the mark?

Gary Stewart wrote:

 

I haven't tried to download schematics for the model A, so I have no idea about them...

 

There is no ARM SoC open-source hardware, yet. Other than the Raspberry Pi, all ARM SoCs including the

BeagleBone/Black use proprietary GPUs. Argue all you want, and you have before, you can't have open-

source hardware with a large chunk of fully, undeniably, unarguably proprietary hardware.

The RasPi Model B schematics include Model A: it's the same PCB, just different build options and they're noted on the schematic.

While you're right in principle about there being no truly open-source hardware, I would argue that BeagleBone/Black complies with more definitions of OSHW than RasPi   BBone is made from parts with data sheets you can buy from distributors, has full schematics, full BOM, and Gerbers.  So you can clone and/or modify BBone instead of starting from scratch, which is the point of OSHW.  Can't do that with RasPi -- you can't even get the BCM2835 reliably.

"The RasPi Model B schematics include Model A: it's the same PCB, just different build options and they're noted on the schematic."

That is what I assumed, but like I said I haven't actually looked at them.

"While you're right in principle about there being no truly open-source hardware, I would argue that BeagleBone/Black complies with more definitions of OSHW than RasPi"

As I said, and this is the same argument you used before, you argue for something that is simply not correct. By its very definition, you can not have open-source hardware

that uses proprietary hardware. Your original statement made no distinction between mostly?-open-source hardware and true open-source hardware, you just said that the

BeagleBone Black, and the "other alternatives" are open-source hardware, which in principle and in fact they are not.

"So you can clone and/or modify BBone instead of starting from scratch, which is the point of OSHW.  Can't do that with RasPi -- you can't even get the BCM2835 reliably."

But you can't write open-source drivers for the GPU based on the actual device specifications because there are none. You can do that with the BCM2835 and BCM2836.

Still I don't call the BM2835/6 open-source hardware because the USB OTG portion is not Broadcom IP and is not documented. And in the overall design that is just a tiny

portion of the SoC, but it is still proprietary.

John Beetem wrote:

 

"The ODROID schematics are a bit hard to follow since they're hierarchical instead of flat.  There is only one page 21 and one page 22 in the design, but the printout has two instances of each with different component names.  You have to go back to the root schematic on page 1 to make sense of it and see how the signal names map.  It's a pain: I far prefer flat schematics for a board this size, but schematic styles vary."

I thought of another explanation.  It's possible that Hardkernel uses a single database of schematic pages for all their products so they don't have to re-draw sheets or make sure they've copied them correctly.  If this is the case, if you want to borrow a page from another product, you just provide new component names.  This would help explain how Hardkernel is able to churn out so many products.

Just a hypothesis.  Another hypothesis is just that the board designer likes this style.

Gary Stewart wrote:

 

As I said, and this is the same argument you used before, you argue for something that is simply not correct. By its very definition, you can not have open-source hardware that uses proprietary hardware.

This is incorrect as Open Source Hardware (OSHW) products do almost always contain proprietary hardware components such as a SoC.  Parallax Propeller 1 is the only recent processor I know that is Open Source (Propeller 1 Open Source | Parallax Inc).

The OSHW definition requires that the design files for the product be released under an Open Source license.  In the case of an electronics board, this would include the schematics, PCB board layout and Bill of Materials.  The Open Source Hardware Association (OSHWA) provides details in their OSHW FAQ:

Open-Source Hardware FAQ | Open Source Hardware Association

cheers,

drew

P.S. I am really hoping that lowRISC will succeed in their goal of fabricating a commercially viable Open Source SoC: lowRISC.org