I just finished watching the latest episode of Picard so I feel like using a space analogy.

If this RoadTest were a moon, it is currently not orbiting the planet (i.e. technology) I am delving into.

As shabaz alluded to in his post doesn't plug into or interface with technology I am currently playing with. It would require a major mental shift, to shelve what I am working on to take up the project.

I think it also came at a bad time because of competing RoadTest that do fall into my technology road house.

I did read it and do some brain storming but couldn't find the time to commit. To fully understand it would have take some additional time to develop.

Hello,

I wanted to add my two cents even though I've been missing in action for long while now.

Speaking for myself and I think it has been brought up before is the issue of return on investment (ROI). For a kit like this the ROI is very now, but that not the whole issue. I have spent hours on small kits like this to ensure I give the best possible review. I often deal with the company behind the review to resolve issue and help give a better explanation of the product and its issues. I did this recently with the NXP motor Controller I reviewed.

For me the real issue comes with the lack of acknowledgment and progression with a kit like this. When I first started doing roadtests I was happy to just get selected with the idea that I would eventually graduate to bigger better and more interesting kits and even equipment. The concept of show what you can do and then you will be rewarded was how thought of this whole endeavor. This is not to say learning is not part of the adventure, but that learning bigger and more complex products would be in store after showing you can learn and review the smaller ones.

This never really happened. I've applied to a number of the larger more interesting roadtests but never seem to come out on top. Instead I see people selected that seem to only apply to these larger more complex and valuable roadtests winning. The idea then became, why give so much to a community that seems to only reward those that only enter for the good stuff and not those that put in a lot of efforts for the smaller stuff and are willing to start from the bottom. It was the same reason I disliked the "top member" concept, there are a lot of people that contribute here and help out but it seems there was an inner circle that you could not get into even with a  lot of dedication if someone on top felt you were not worthy.

In short, I stopped applying because I felt in some ways like the sucker taking the easy to get stuff and working twice as hard to get a decent review only to be passed over when it came to the more advanced and somewhat interesting gear.

That's my 2 cents

Kas

Yes it's an ongoing problem, which no one seems interested in actually fixing.

A big reason people have for not entering a roadtest is not having the equipment needed to test it.

Randal knows this from a poll he ran recently, yet nothing has changed.

The Tektronix gear isn't going to anyone who actually needs it.

Hey @rscasny how about some Roadtests the 'Top Members' cannot enter/comment on ?

Try it as an experiment, see if more people show interest.

I'm sorry I disagree.

To eliminate the top members from entering is a disservice to the vendors that provides products to evaluate. Those top members have earned their place. The quality and quantity of output is impressive. Restricting them from competing not only hurts the vendor but me also. I want to learn and maybe someday earn the privilege of the title of top member.

It is unfortunate that choosing to entering the competition arena is based on the chance of success. I can't accept not applying because others are to good. I don't see an reason to level the RoadTest playing field because it is already level.

Sorry, I do not get this comment in relation to the question at hand? The topic is the following:

Why Wasn't There More Interest: Silicon Labs Bluetooth Design Kit

More to the point, I am in this group and do not have the experience to apply. But if I wasn't busy all ready,

I do believe this would have made a good alternative choice.

station240

I'm not sure how your comment relates to mine. I in no way suggested removing top members from applying.

What I did recommend was looking at making things feel less clique and having people apply to ALL levels of roatest. When you see members winning big ticket roadtests but which have a good ROI, ($4000+ for a few hours work) yet rarely applying to small items ($20 for many hours) it leaves members dishartend.

When I first started I understood from the community and from the original admins that you need to prove yourself with the small items first. But here I see to much of the items with a good ROI going to the same people without them doing low ROI roadtests. I will says it also not encouraging when a member has won 2 or more of the same equipment that they clearly already had. And yes I know this is not how to build your lab, its a product review but it's nice to see some real comradery and decency from those members who do step back when they know they could do a great review but feel others could benefit from the roadtest being presented.

Kas

clem57,

I'm not sure about your comment regarding not having the experience to apply. Could I ask you to clarify.

I always felt we're not experts in everything and stepping out and spending time learning new things and reviewing things gives an even better review for a company as they get to see how it's viewed from those without the intuitive insiders information.

Kas

RoadTest applications are purely voluntary - if you want a shot in it, you enter. If you don't, that's fine too.

Doing a few lower-value RoadTests is a way to build up credibility and a portfolio, but I don't see why one would continue along that path unless it was something they were interested in. Even if you've taken the time to apply and are awarded the RoadTest, you could always decline if you don't feel like it's worth the time. Nobody's forcing anyone to do a low-value (to them) RoadTest, likewise, nobody is claiming that in exchange for high-value RoadTests, one must continually complete low-value RoadTests. Some RoadTests have very few applicants as a result, and this reflects the lack of appeal to a wider audience, but it has always been the case that you should only apply to a RoadTest if you are interested and have an idea of how you would test a given item.

As for big ticket items, I'm glad you think that it only takes a "few hours" work to spin up a review of a complex instrument which might require everything in the manner of creating visual assets, bespoke connection adapters, procuring niche parts, designing test circuits, running tests/validation in different scenarios, co-coordinating other equipment, repeating experiments when things don't work out, coming to grips with manufacturer's software/firmware, plenty of data analysis and in all probability, results in the discovery of functionality issues that requires many back-and-forth contacts with the manufacturer. Sure, the "low-value" item requires "many" (as you put it) hours ... I know some definitely do, but most of the less-valuable items also perform fewer functions and shouldn't require as much in the way of testing. None of my past five reviews have needed any less than 120 hours of my time ... some closer to 180+ hours, but for the most part, this is something I enjoy which is why I put my all into it.

To write a credible and useful review requires some level of experience. Would you trust a review of an item from someone who has never used one before and has nothing to compare it with? The sponsors are involved in the selection (as far as I'm aware, they have the final say) and it is likely that at least some of them are aiming for a comparison review, where someone with experience is comparing their product with a competitor's product, so they can communicate insights that the company could not themselves credibly say. If your proposal doesn't offer more of what the sponsor wants, then I can't say you have a good chance. There is definitely value in having members have more than one model of a given sort of device especially for providing the possibility to do a comparison review.

Nothing is a given in the RoadTest program - it's not a program to "build your lab", it is a side effect that might happen but is not something anyone should be counting on. As the sponsor has the final say, I'd argue that the selection is performed on merit of applications in terms of value provided to them. It's unlikely they know who you are, and it's unlikely they're making choices deliberately to discourage RoadTesters ...

- Gough

and for all you said you might be 100% correct, but what you have written is exactly why the community wont grow. When enough people feel sidelined eventually your reviews and feedback loses its diversity. Companies realize they are building a product for one guy in a lab that no one in the real world wants cares about.

You can run your one man show, and keep defending it as you always do, and your superiority complex doesn't help the community either, but in the end there is no diversity, there will be loss of interest and eventually the walls along with the rest of the house will come crashing down

Kas

I think some of your responses to Gough are, to put it mildly, somewhat intemperate.

You can disagree with him (and me) without being rude.

Actually I think Gough's post is pretty much spot on - to do a decent review of a serious bit of equipment takes a lot of effort and requires experience both in reviewing and engineering.

I've rather given up on applying for road tests because I don't like the terms and conditions, and also because the value for money aspect to the reviewer is between marginal and negative - take the current "big ticket" road test of the Keithley Source meter - three weeks (120 hours) spent on doing a comprehensive review would be charged to a customer at between £4k and £8k (not a quote - kind of a UK contracting average) - the instrument costs £4700 but for a business can be offset against tax, so it costs about £3500 in real money (and I might get a discount), so even at the lowest commercial rates it's cheaper just to buy one and get on with work. Only if you have no work or do it for non commercial reasons does it make sense to put the effort in.

I'm grateful to road testers like Gough (and others) who do a professional job and whom I've found to be friendly and supportive when asked for more information or clarification.

MK

Your perceptions are necessarily reality.

I to take exception to your comments that appear to be personal and targeted at Gough.

My acknowledgement to MK for his response to your post.

colporteur  wrote:

Those top members have earned their place. The quality and quantity of output is impressive.

 

I don't see an reason to level the RoadTest playing field because it is already level.

I've no doubt other members could produce an impressive quality and quantity of Roadtest reviews if they had to near automatic approval "Top Members" get around here.

Go look at 'in progress' and completed roadtests, see who actually got the kit, and how long they have been on this website.

There is always a limited amount of kit, lets say it's 4, if two Top Members immediately state they want this (which happens a lot around here), then we know it's now 100% harder for others to get to try it.

I suggest SOME Roadtests for those who aren't 'Top Members' and they all throw a major dummy spit. Too used to getting anything they ask for huh ?

Anyway all your talk about Top members "earned their place" "privilege" and "title" makes you sound like a major snob, Whatever it's your choice, I just don't see it as a desirable human trait.

colporteur  wrote:

Those top members have earned their place. The quality and quantity of output is impressive.

 

I don't see an reason to level the RoadTest playing field because it is already level.

I've no doubt other members could produce an impressive quality and quantity of Roadtest reviews if they had to near automatic approval "Top Members" get around here.

Go look at 'in progress' and completed roadtests, see who actually got the kit, and how long they have been on this website.

There is always a limited amount of kit, lets say it's 4, if two Top Members immediately state they want this (which happens a lot around here), then we know it's now 100% harder for others to get to try it.

I suggest SOME Roadtests for those who aren't 'Top Members' and they all throw a major dummy spit. Too used to getting anything they ask for huh ?

Anyway all your talk about Top members "earned their place" "privilege" and "title" makes you sound like a major snob, Whatever it's your choice, I just don't see it as a desirable human trait.

Paul,

I appreciate your participating in the discussion. But let's keep it professional and avoid calling people names.

People are chosen based upon their application, as well as their participation in the community. I have said this time and again.

The issue is many, many people send me applications that are incomplete, don't have a test procedure, or give me little indication that they can actually test the product. I get plenty of applications that are insincere.

Top members are generally not the primary reason I recommend someone to the sponsor. But I will say many of the top members write very detailed, information and compelling applications (or proposals, if you will). It's a competitive program. We do not hide that fact.

I generally read all the applications up to 3 times. There is no automated screening. I feel if you have spent the time writing an application, you deserve my time in reading it.

Often times, I have selected new people or new members who have not participated much. When one is selected, I send them an notification email. They never respond to me. Just happened in another roadtest. Would you send someone a $5000 piece of test equipment if they did not bother to respond to your email? The answer is self-evident.

When I need a roadtester because somone has not responded to me, I post a message saying I need another roadtester. Often times a member who frequently participates on the community responds to me.

I'd encourage you to apply, write a good application, and you have as much chance in being selected as an official roadtester as anyone.

Conversely, if one does receive the kit, and does not complete the review, that individual will no longer be able to participate in the program going forward. And that list unfortunately has grown recently.

Sincerely,

Randall Scasny

Roadtest Program Manager

rscasny response to your post caused me to take a second read. I had to laugh when I think I discovered what Randell took exception to. Of all the things I have been labelled, snob would be flattering, if it were but true. The words that you attribute to being a snob, can also carry a connotation of respect. The site respects the work of top members, it doesn't cow to them.

My post in this community, for the most part, come from a point of respect. The moderator has but once, called me to task on a post. I could blame it on a drunkin tirade but that would only be an excuse. The comments were crass and irreverent. I take those words as a badge of honor because I have earned them. After reviewing my posted comments, I chose to remove them rather than water them down. I offended someone and rather than defend the offence it was much easier to take them down and move on.

If you follow a few of the top members in this community, you may accumulate some knowledge, that may lead to the understanding of why they are top members.  Earning something. Developing a reputation. Working hard to be the best in your field or fields, doesn't make you privileged. Basking in your success doesn't make you titled. Leveraging your expertise to gather wealth is not always wrong. If we don't take time to celebrate our success, then what is in it.

I have posted questions and have thrown topics in a forum for discussion, that has garnered a top members response. I may not have liked their answer but they did respond to me.  Those responses have always been respectful. That is an characteristic of this site that few other public forums have. The elite, the top members, the privilege as you feel they are, treating others, especially below their station, with respect.

I accept there is a frustration in the community regarding RoadTests Review. I have tried to help with commentary and suggestion to remove that impediment. Competition, reward and return on investment is the RoadTest triad Randell juggles, in what appears to be on a daily basis. I have advised him the resources invested in the RoadTest whining, may have reach a point of diminishing return. Randell is altruistic. To his credit, continues to listen, monitor and respond if it has the potential to improve the program. Randell, in my opinion is one of those top members. Imagine, an individual that works for our benefit being a top member. Who would think such a thing as privileged.

The road test program is no a charity. If you think so, then this is a misconception which you need to correct for yourself. The road tests are a marketing instrument for E14, Farnell and the road test sponsors (the equipment manufacturers). Its intended as a win-win situation: you deliver something of value (a high-quality review and valuable feedback) to the manufacturer (cheaper that it would be otherwise), and in turn can keep the item for free instead of paying for it. There is no 'someone who needs it' part in there, and there never will.

OTOH I think that there is a class of items where the odds are skewed to certain members, which is why certain names seem to appear more often. When we are talking about high-end gear, which might be more specialized (who needs a spectrum analyzer every day?) or indeed needs some special equipment to review it properly, the number of potential road testers shrink quite a lot. And the resulting member are more likely to already own something similar - otherwise, where would they get the experience from to review it properly? (In addition, for items with a high price tag the sponsor surely want to make sure to get a high-quality review, so the selection is skewed towards members which already have proven that they can deliver one. And I think just doing that several times, and being active in the community too, makes you a top member...).

From the perspective of E14 and the sponsors, this is how you run such a program. From the perspective of someone applying for a RT because you really could use the item to be tested, I would hate it, because it really reduces your odds. You really need to put some work into the process - do contests, do smaller RTs to prove what you can do, seek active feedback. This is the only way to work yourself upwards. Its not for everybody - there are people who like doing this (and I'm always wondering how the top members are able to invest so much time in their hobby, and into E14).

hlipka  wrote:

 

I'm always wondering how the top members are able to invest so much time

This only works if things are efficient - I like to build stuff and experiment, but also try to solve technical problems... and it's a total waste of time when you lead someone down a path with suggestions to get them where they want to be, and it turns out there's no sensible resolution at all - actually, they just wanted a whinge at TMs.

hlipka  wrote:

 

Its not for everybody - there are people who like doing this (and I'm always wondering how the top members are able to invest so much time in their hobby, and into E14).

I'd have to say (and I'm not proud of it) that time is limited and a number of sacrifices have been made to pursue my interests. For one, I have practically no social "life" as such, no relationships to speak of (something I'm hoping to change) ... and my health has probably been slightly neglected in the late nights staying up to try something out, stress induced from having things fall apart at the last moment, occasional international time-zone clash for a conference call and marathon sprints to the finish. It can be a chore - sore fingers from typing things up, tired eyes ... but I do it because I enjoy doing it ... and I enjoy learning and experiencing new ways of doing things, new ways of thinking.

It is lucky that my interests have some relevance and overlap with my work, which means that it is easier to justify the time investment as a career investment as well sometimes. But even someone like me needs to take a break - effective as of next week, I'm on a one month hiatus as I travel overseas (for better or for worse) ...

- Gough