element14 Community
element14 Community
    Register Log In
  • Site
  • Search
  • Log In Register
  • About Us
  • Community Hub
    Community Hub
    • What's New on element14
    • Feedback and Support
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Personal Blogs
    • Members Area
    • Achievement Levels
  • Learn
    Learn
    • Ask an Expert
    • eBooks
    • element14 presents
    • Learning Center
    • Tech Spotlight
    • STEM Academy
    • Webinars, Training and Events
    • Learning Groups
  • Technologies
    Technologies
    • 3D Printing
    • FPGA
    • Industrial Automation
    • Internet of Things
    • Power & Energy
    • Sensors
    • Technology Groups
  • Challenges & Projects
    Challenges & Projects
    • Design Challenges
    • element14 presents Projects
    • Project14
    • Arduino Projects
    • Raspberry Pi Projects
    • Project Groups
  • Products
    Products
    • Arduino
    • Avnet Boards Community
    • Dev Tools
    • Manufacturers
    • Multicomp Pro
    • Product Groups
    • Raspberry Pi
    • RoadTests & Reviews
  • Store
    Store
    • Visit Your Store
    • Choose another store...
      • Europe
      •  Austria (German)
      •  Belgium (Dutch, French)
      •  Bulgaria (Bulgarian)
      •  Czech Republic (Czech)
      •  Denmark (Danish)
      •  Estonia (Estonian)
      •  Finland (Finnish)
      •  France (French)
      •  Germany (German)
      •  Hungary (Hungarian)
      •  Ireland
      •  Israel
      •  Italy (Italian)
      •  Latvia (Latvian)
      •  
      •  Lithuania (Lithuanian)
      •  Netherlands (Dutch)
      •  Norway (Norwegian)
      •  Poland (Polish)
      •  Portugal (Portuguese)
      •  Romania (Romanian)
      •  Russia (Russian)
      •  Slovakia (Slovak)
      •  Slovenia (Slovenian)
      •  Spain (Spanish)
      •  Sweden (Swedish)
      •  Switzerland(German, French)
      •  Turkey (Turkish)
      •  United Kingdom
      • Asia Pacific
      •  Australia
      •  China
      •  Hong Kong
      •  India
      •  Korea (Korean)
      •  Malaysia
      •  New Zealand
      •  Philippines
      •  Singapore
      •  Taiwan
      •  Thailand (Thai)
      • Americas
      •  Brazil (Portuguese)
      •  Canada
      •  Mexico (Spanish)
      •  United States
      Can't find the country/region you're looking for? Visit our export site or find a local distributor.
  • Translate
  • Profile
  • Settings
RoadTests & Reviews
  • Products
  • More
RoadTests & Reviews
RoadTest Forum Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest ?
  • Blog
  • RoadTest Forum
  • Documents
  • RoadTests
  • Reviews
  • Polls
  • Files
  • Members
  • Mentions
  • Sub-Groups
  • Tags
  • More
  • Cancel
  • New
Join RoadTests & Reviews to participate - click to join for free!
Actions
  • Share
  • More
  • Cancel
Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 40 replies
  • Subscribers 2550 subscribers
  • Views 6024 views
  • Users 0 members are here
  • RoadTest
  • product review
  • Pay to RoadTest
  • Cost of RoadTest
  • application
  • roadtest review
Related

Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest ?

cstanton
cstanton over 2 years ago

"No"

Is probably what's already on your fingers ready to type in reply, and that's fine.

Each year I took part in "Reddit Secret Santa", where you're matched against another person, who you find information about, and send them a secret santa gift for Christmas.

Someone matches with you, and you hope that they will send you something, after all, they signed up for the Secret Santa.

A few years in a row, I was 'shafted' and wasn't sent anything, sometimes in these cases, you're matched up with a new Secret Santa and then sent something, unfortunately that didn't happen either.

This caused a bit of an uproar in Reddit, while people were happy if they got anything and knew they weren't necessarily entitled to anything, they felt that it wasn't quite in the spirit of things.

So along came the idea of becoming an 'Elf'. You paid $5 to enter the Reddit Secret Santa, and that put you against other people who had also paid $5, the idea being because you'd all invested a base amount in it, you're more inclined to make sure that the person you're matched with will get a present, and you yourself will get a present, and you're supporting Reddit at the same time. Everyone wins and you're invested in it.

This pretty much worked for Reddit, paying into something seems to 'click' with people that you want to be with others, so you're paying the 'premium' to get into that rather than anyone who can sign up and looking for a freebie without paying it forward. A bit capitalist but some people like to support things.

There are other mechanisms that they use for reputation with Secret Santa, when you successfully enter a Secret Santa you gain a token, you gain another token for sending off your 'Parcel', and you gain another token for marking your parcel as received, and you gain another token when your Secret Santee receives your Parcel. You can then 'spend' these tokens to enter another Reddit Secret Santa. Don't do these? Well, you don't get your tokens. Though even this has mechanisms where "what if you just create another account?" and "how do you get tokens if you want to redeem yourself?" - I'm sure some vetting and mechanism is involved there, too, but ultimately there's also weight to paying to opt-in with like-minded people.

Which puts the thought of "Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest" ?

We've had members over the years that receive equipment, and they run off with it and don't do a RoadTest. This harms the Community, and it harms the suppliers when they provide the hardware (especially if it's early access hardware).

How would this work? I'm not entirely sure.

Would you have to pay-in to apply to the RoadTest?

Would you only pay-in when you're chosen to write the RoadTest review (so before you receive the hardware), would it be a deposit?

Which is reimbursed when you've wrote the RoadTest Review? (I think I'd prefer the deposit idea out of any of these).

Would we only do this for RoadTest kit over a certain value?

We have no plans whatsoever at implementing anything like this, this's the first time I've brought it up to anyone (including to the Community team itself), it's simply a thought passing my mind. We also don't intend on implementing this from any outcome of this conversation - though if I could at least do the 'token/points' system, I'd consider that, handling money is dangerous, but accountability matters.

But perhaps a bit of reflection on the fact that we don't do this will give some people who consider a RoadTest pause for thought.

Thanks to all members of the Community that enters a RoadTest and writes your RoadTest reviews, and those who keep applying for a RoadTest even if you aren't chosen for that particular item. We appreciate you.

  • Sign in to reply
  • Cancel

Top Replies

  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 2 years ago +7
    As a RoadTest veteran with 34 completed (and on-time) RoadTests since my first in 2013, I’ll offer my 2c, as the topic of people running away with equipment and/or producing sub-standard reviews seems…
  • rscasny
    rscasny over 2 years ago +7
    This is a great discussion. Thanks all for participating in it. Just to be honest with you: I am not interested (nor anyone on the element14 team) would want pay-up-front roadtests. Such a policy might…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago +5
    I think it might put off a lot of people, especially students and new grads, but still, sometimes raising something like this can make people brainstorm : ) Maybe the issue can be more generalized, into…
Parents
  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 2 years ago

    As a RoadTest veteran with 34 completed (and on-time) RoadTests since my first in 2013, I’ll offer my 2c, as the topic of people running away with equipment and/or producing sub-standard reviews seems to be a recurring one, albeit somewhat less often since rscasny  took the helm.

    The RoadTest program is perhaps one of the biggest draws to element14 and I think the publicity does not shy away from the fact the program is “free” to participants. This draws in people of all levels and backgrounds, which is perhaps important given the wide variety of things that may be RoadTested. The choice of RoadTesters based on a comprehensive application process is intended to ensure the best applicants receive the opportunity and the strategy that @rscasny has of picking a mix of both known, experienced RoadTesters and new RoadTesters has been carefully refined over the years to ensure the pool of good RoadTesters can grow over time. To some extent, the Reliable RoadTester badge had been introduced as part of this as well and the insistence that RoadTesters self-identify if they have previously failed to deliver on-time and the clause that they can be excluded based on failure-to-deliver.

    When I joined, the process was much more ad-hoc and applications varied wildly in quality and content. Delivery of reviews was very hit-and-miss, quality was much the same. Admittedly, some of my earlier reviews definitely don’t measure up to the quality of my latest pieces of work. I spent a lot of time writing a blog of my thoughts about the RoadTest program back in 2020 (of which I am extremely grateful for).

    I think the first issue (which has previously been identified and discussed ad-nauseum) really boils down to attitude and value. Something given away for free is often valued less than one which is paid for. Advertising RoadTests as “free” may give the perception that it is without obligation, which is untrue. Likewise, it may create the perception that reviewers are merely volunteering their time to produce a review. I’ve always taken the approach of this being a professional engagement – goods in exchange for review in a fixed timeframe. Participants should really be put into the frame of this as a “serious job” delivering real-world insights rather than “volunteering their time”. Sometimes things do legitimately get in the way, other times things go awry, and I feel flexibility here is a good thing too, but something to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

    If you would have asked me to pay money to review an item back in 2013 when I started, I would have said no. It’s not because I don’t want to pay, it’s that I would have never had the means to pay! As a student with no credit card … it’s just not a possibility. Similarly, the logistics of handling money back and forth, especially with currency conversions potentially happening (which means losses) is a drama and a half. Imagine getting charged a 3% fee + their conversion margin both ways! Yikes!

    But if you ask me now … I can’t say that I’m entirely opposed to it provided the deposit is reasonable and we can avoid “losing” money in the process of the refund. I deliver my reviews on-time and to a high standard, and have nothing to lose in that instance, provided you’re willing to go the distance to do it. But as someone else has rightly pointed out – if it’s cheaper than buying the equipment, there’s nothing to stop them from running off with the unit anyway. I still think it is a legitimate concern that by doing so, you will be locking out people like the 2013-version of me … and making some difficult-to-recruit RoadTests even more difficult perhaps.

    I think the release condition for the deposit is an issue as well. Some very poor reviews have been delivered just to fulfil the condition of delivering “a review”, but I would be disheartened to see a good piece of equipment go to a member that delivers a two-paragraph, all-text review with no care that demonstrates nothing more than what is on a datasheet. The arbiter of what is sufficient effort for two months may need to refer to the original proposal and agree it meets a certain amount of promised goals to be able to release the deposit. Perhaps proposals should be framed as key deliverables instead.

    Because of the administrative overhead, perhaps it is good to restrict this to higher-value items. I wonder if this would be problematic from a taxation point of view as well. Perhaps those with greater than a given number of completed RoadTests could escape paying entirely – although this may be considered unfair by others, perhaps if they have delivered lower-value reviews a certain number of times, they can join the upper-bracket of “deposit-free” RoadTesters. I think it makes sense if deposits are taken, that they be taken on-shipment or selection, rather than on application, again for administrative reasons.

    But in the end, I suppose this is just a difficult thing to enforce. Perhaps there is no 100% guarantee in life – even good people may fail from time to time as well. But I feel that it’s an interesting conversation cstanton as having money in the form of a deposit definitely does mean that the reviewer has something at-stake and an incentive to complete. But in return, I feel this may also impact the (perceived, or actual) impartiality of the reviews. If a user feels their money is at risk if they don’t deliver a satisfying (positive) review, then this is only going to jeopardise the process and the trust the readers have in the reviews that are posted.

    Maybe for certain products, no deposit is necessary and instead, the licensing system can be exploited to achieve this function. I’ve had gear lent to me from T&M companies that come with time-locked licenses that will refuse to function once your lease period is over (or revert to basic functionality only). Perhaps for such capable equipment, they be shipped with time-locked licenses set to expire one month post-RoadTest. Providing they do complete a satisfactory review, the permanent license keys will be provided to those members, and if they don’t, then the gear is either rendered impaired/useless and then they have an incentive to return it to the manufacturer (or you) to get it re-licensed for another go. This won’t work for all equipment, but exchanging serial codes is probably easier than exchanging money for many members, and it doesn’t restrict functionality during the review period. Won’t stop people parting out the machine for spares … unfortunately …

    But perhaps the trust-the-application model we have at the moment is still the simplest, from an administrative standpoint. If the losses are at an acceptable level, perhaps that’s just the “cost of doing business”. I can’t see any changes making things necessarily fairer for all, but then again, there were heated debates by disgruntled RoadTest applicants that were not selected as they felt they were being discriminated against. If we formalise the establishment of a “high tier” RoadTester, I fear we may be inviting this debate back into the fore and reigniting some very unpleasant discussions (as someone who was the target of a few members/former-members).

    As far as I know, the companies may also have some say in this … perhaps different companies will accept different levels of risk in non-review. Or perhaps some companies will have the time to make an informed choice by looking at prior work and statistics in terms of members and their delivery track record …

    - Gough

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +7 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
Reply
  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 2 years ago

    As a RoadTest veteran with 34 completed (and on-time) RoadTests since my first in 2013, I’ll offer my 2c, as the topic of people running away with equipment and/or producing sub-standard reviews seems to be a recurring one, albeit somewhat less often since rscasny  took the helm.

    The RoadTest program is perhaps one of the biggest draws to element14 and I think the publicity does not shy away from the fact the program is “free” to participants. This draws in people of all levels and backgrounds, which is perhaps important given the wide variety of things that may be RoadTested. The choice of RoadTesters based on a comprehensive application process is intended to ensure the best applicants receive the opportunity and the strategy that @rscasny has of picking a mix of both known, experienced RoadTesters and new RoadTesters has been carefully refined over the years to ensure the pool of good RoadTesters can grow over time. To some extent, the Reliable RoadTester badge had been introduced as part of this as well and the insistence that RoadTesters self-identify if they have previously failed to deliver on-time and the clause that they can be excluded based on failure-to-deliver.

    When I joined, the process was much more ad-hoc and applications varied wildly in quality and content. Delivery of reviews was very hit-and-miss, quality was much the same. Admittedly, some of my earlier reviews definitely don’t measure up to the quality of my latest pieces of work. I spent a lot of time writing a blog of my thoughts about the RoadTest program back in 2020 (of which I am extremely grateful for).

    I think the first issue (which has previously been identified and discussed ad-nauseum) really boils down to attitude and value. Something given away for free is often valued less than one which is paid for. Advertising RoadTests as “free” may give the perception that it is without obligation, which is untrue. Likewise, it may create the perception that reviewers are merely volunteering their time to produce a review. I’ve always taken the approach of this being a professional engagement – goods in exchange for review in a fixed timeframe. Participants should really be put into the frame of this as a “serious job” delivering real-world insights rather than “volunteering their time”. Sometimes things do legitimately get in the way, other times things go awry, and I feel flexibility here is a good thing too, but something to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

    If you would have asked me to pay money to review an item back in 2013 when I started, I would have said no. It’s not because I don’t want to pay, it’s that I would have never had the means to pay! As a student with no credit card … it’s just not a possibility. Similarly, the logistics of handling money back and forth, especially with currency conversions potentially happening (which means losses) is a drama and a half. Imagine getting charged a 3% fee + their conversion margin both ways! Yikes!

    But if you ask me now … I can’t say that I’m entirely opposed to it provided the deposit is reasonable and we can avoid “losing” money in the process of the refund. I deliver my reviews on-time and to a high standard, and have nothing to lose in that instance, provided you’re willing to go the distance to do it. But as someone else has rightly pointed out – if it’s cheaper than buying the equipment, there’s nothing to stop them from running off with the unit anyway. I still think it is a legitimate concern that by doing so, you will be locking out people like the 2013-version of me … and making some difficult-to-recruit RoadTests even more difficult perhaps.

    I think the release condition for the deposit is an issue as well. Some very poor reviews have been delivered just to fulfil the condition of delivering “a review”, but I would be disheartened to see a good piece of equipment go to a member that delivers a two-paragraph, all-text review with no care that demonstrates nothing more than what is on a datasheet. The arbiter of what is sufficient effort for two months may need to refer to the original proposal and agree it meets a certain amount of promised goals to be able to release the deposit. Perhaps proposals should be framed as key deliverables instead.

    Because of the administrative overhead, perhaps it is good to restrict this to higher-value items. I wonder if this would be problematic from a taxation point of view as well. Perhaps those with greater than a given number of completed RoadTests could escape paying entirely – although this may be considered unfair by others, perhaps if they have delivered lower-value reviews a certain number of times, they can join the upper-bracket of “deposit-free” RoadTesters. I think it makes sense if deposits are taken, that they be taken on-shipment or selection, rather than on application, again for administrative reasons.

    But in the end, I suppose this is just a difficult thing to enforce. Perhaps there is no 100% guarantee in life – even good people may fail from time to time as well. But I feel that it’s an interesting conversation cstanton as having money in the form of a deposit definitely does mean that the reviewer has something at-stake and an incentive to complete. But in return, I feel this may also impact the (perceived, or actual) impartiality of the reviews. If a user feels their money is at risk if they don’t deliver a satisfying (positive) review, then this is only going to jeopardise the process and the trust the readers have in the reviews that are posted.

    Maybe for certain products, no deposit is necessary and instead, the licensing system can be exploited to achieve this function. I’ve had gear lent to me from T&M companies that come with time-locked licenses that will refuse to function once your lease period is over (or revert to basic functionality only). Perhaps for such capable equipment, they be shipped with time-locked licenses set to expire one month post-RoadTest. Providing they do complete a satisfactory review, the permanent license keys will be provided to those members, and if they don’t, then the gear is either rendered impaired/useless and then they have an incentive to return it to the manufacturer (or you) to get it re-licensed for another go. This won’t work for all equipment, but exchanging serial codes is probably easier than exchanging money for many members, and it doesn’t restrict functionality during the review period. Won’t stop people parting out the machine for spares … unfortunately …

    But perhaps the trust-the-application model we have at the moment is still the simplest, from an administrative standpoint. If the losses are at an acceptable level, perhaps that’s just the “cost of doing business”. I can’t see any changes making things necessarily fairer for all, but then again, there were heated debates by disgruntled RoadTest applicants that were not selected as they felt they were being discriminated against. If we formalise the establishment of a “high tier” RoadTester, I fear we may be inviting this debate back into the fore and reigniting some very unpleasant discussions (as someone who was the target of a few members/former-members).

    As far as I know, the companies may also have some say in this … perhaps different companies will accept different levels of risk in non-review. Or perhaps some companies will have the time to make an informed choice by looking at prior work and statistics in terms of members and their delivery track record …

    - Gough

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +7 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
Children
No Data
element14 Community

element14 is the first online community specifically for engineers. Connect with your peers and get expert answers to your questions.

  • Members
  • Learn
  • Technologies
  • Challenges & Projects
  • Products
  • Store
  • About Us
  • Feedback & Support
  • FAQs
  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy Policy
  • Legal and Copyright Notices
  • Sitemap
  • Cookies

An Avnet Company © 2025 Premier Farnell Limited. All Rights Reserved.

Premier Farnell Ltd, registered in England and Wales (no 00876412), registered office: Farnell House, Forge Lane, Leeds LS12 2NE.

ICP 备案号 10220084.

Follow element14

  • X
  • Facebook
  • linkedin
  • YouTube