Engineering education/certification/titles around the world

Hi Mark,

Great topic. In a global economy we should all make more effort to discuss these thing - helps us know how to get a job in other countries for instance, or how things perhaps should change for engineering in our local countries to improve things.

In the UK we too have degree and non-degree streams of education, some vocational qualifications, and a scattering of institutions and bodies for accreditation. There is also plenty of harmonisation that has

gone on, and is going on to ensure standards are similar in Europe.

However, as far as I understand, in the UK, for a quite lot of work in electrical/electronic engineering there is no requirement to hold any educational qualification nor accreditation by an institution.

There are such requirements of course for certain types of work.

If there was a defective product, then liability would rest with the manufacturer of course, so it is in the companies interests to hire competent staff (and they will use the usual combination of

interviews, tests, references etc and ask about education and accreditations). This is because it is very hard for companies to try and push off liability to employees, unless the employee really went of on

an extreme personal enterprise (e.g. sabotage) that was so far from the scope of employment. So for defective products, the manufacturer is liable, not the employee who designed the product.

So it is in the company's interest to ensure they have good employees.

The degree course is three years full-time but many will do a Master's degree which is usually 4 years, or continue further (e.g. PhD or another post-grad course in a particular field).

Some typical example paths to engineering in the UK are (say) Degree -> Chartered Engineer (there is an Engineering Council that can offer institutions the right to offer these, e.g. the Institute of

Electrical Engineers, or British Computer Society (they now call themselves BCS I think) are two popular ones for our field) or (say) college engineering course -> Grad Diploma offered by (say) City & Guilds or

Open University, or (say) Degree -> PostGrad Diploma. I followed the Chartered Engineer path where you need to show competence in a number of different areas, through experience and training. The criteria is

itemized, and you need to show which criteria you fulfilled in the things you did in your role(s). And helping to promote engineering is important, and not bringing engineering into disrepute for example, so there are other factors

too as well as the academic qualification(s), vocational experience and training.

In general the word engineer in the UK doesn't equate with a qualification in the subject nor experience in the field - anyone can call themselves an engineer. This is good and bad of course, i.e. I can see the positives and negatives with this.

(e.g. some great engineers I know didn't do a degree or similar, and vice versa).

What is bad is that often people outside the profession do not know what a Chartered Engineer is, nor what a Grad or PostGrad diploma is.

There are a proliferation of 'bodies' where fees are paid, such as NICEIC if you want to do (say) building electrical work, I believe generally these are very industry-specific (e.g. building related, or healthcare related, etc)

whereas IEE doesn't restrict itself to a specific type of industry. This has interesting implications, because (say) you may be a Chartered Engineer and as competent as a member of another professional body, but you can't

be on that professional body's approved list unless you meet their criteria and pay fees to that body too. And in that specific industry being a member of that professional body may mean the difference between finding work

and not finding work : (

(Source: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/395613148487466567/ )

Hi Mark,

Great topic. In a global economy we should all make more effort to discuss these thing - helps us know how to get a job in other countries for instance, or how things perhaps should change for engineering in our local countries to improve things.

In the UK we too have degree and non-degree streams of education, some vocational qualifications, and a scattering of institutions and bodies for accreditation. There is also plenty of harmonisation that has

gone on, and is going on to ensure standards are similar in Europe.

However, as far as I understand, in the UK, for a quite lot of work in electrical/electronic engineering there is no requirement to hold any educational qualification nor accreditation by an institution.

There are such requirements of course for certain types of work.

If there was a defective product, then liability would rest with the manufacturer of course, so it is in the companies interests to hire competent staff (and they will use the usual combination of

interviews, tests, references etc and ask about education and accreditations). This is because it is very hard for companies to try and push off liability to employees, unless the employee really went of on

an extreme personal enterprise (e.g. sabotage) that was so far from the scope of employment. So for defective products, the manufacturer is liable, not the employee who designed the product.

So it is in the company's interest to ensure they have good employees.

The degree course is three years full-time but many will do a Master's degree which is usually 4 years, or continue further (e.g. PhD or another post-grad course in a particular field).

Some typical example paths to engineering in the UK are (say) Degree -> Chartered Engineer (there is an Engineering Council that can offer institutions the right to offer these, e.g. the Institute of

Electrical Engineers, or British Computer Society (they now call themselves BCS I think) are two popular ones for our field) or (say) college engineering course -> Grad Diploma offered by (say) City & Guilds or

Open University, or (say) Degree -> PostGrad Diploma. I followed the Chartered Engineer path where you need to show competence in a number of different areas, through experience and training. The criteria is

itemized, and you need to show which criteria you fulfilled in the things you did in your role(s). And helping to promote engineering is important, and not bringing engineering into disrepute for example, so there are other factors

too as well as the academic qualification(s), vocational experience and training.

In general the word engineer in the UK doesn't equate with a qualification in the subject nor experience in the field - anyone can call themselves an engineer. This is good and bad of course, i.e. I can see the positives and negatives with this.

(e.g. some great engineers I know didn't do a degree or similar, and vice versa).

What is bad is that often people outside the profession do not know what a Chartered Engineer is, nor what a Grad or PostGrad diploma is.

There are a proliferation of 'bodies' where fees are paid, such as NICEIC if you want to do (say) building electrical work, I believe generally these are very industry-specific (e.g. building related, or healthcare related, etc)

whereas IEE doesn't restrict itself to a specific type of industry. This has interesting implications, because (say) you may be a Chartered Engineer and as competent as a member of another professional body, but you can't

be on that professional body's approved list unless you meet their criteria and pay fees to that body too. And in that specific industry being a member of that professional body may mean the difference between finding work

and not finding work : (

(Source: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/395613148487466567/ )

Hi Shabaz,

Thank you for that detailed and thoughtful response.  I was surprised by your statement that "as far as I understand, in the UK, for a quite lot of work in electrical/electronic engineering there is no requirement to hold any educational qualification nor accreditation by an institution."  Does that mean that anyone can install mains wiring in a house, for example, or design, fabricate and sell electronics products that connect to the mains supply?  If so, the risks to public safety are enormous.  In Alberta, people that install and maintain electrical power systems have to either be certified journeypersons, or registered apprentices working under a journeyperson.

A professional engineer or professional technologist credential in Alberta carries with it professional responsibility.  The provincial engineering associations here have legislated mandates to regulate members, including the ability to discipline members and revoke licenses to practice.

I was also intrigued by your statement that "In general the word engineer in the UK doesn't equate with a qualification in the subject nor experience in the field - anyone can call themselves an engineer."  Over here in the great white north, one can get into a lot of trouble by calling themselves an engineer if in fact they are not officially licensed as such.

Can I assume that in the UK reputation precedes poorly skilled individuals and this acts as a non-legislated governing mechanism to protect the public from grand incompetence?

Hi Mark!

Yes, as you say, anyone can perform the installation, however, it needs to be certified (e.g. using local government's building inspection), and certification could be hard to obtain unless the person who did the work was a member of one of those bodies like NICEIC.

I'm not up-to-speed with the latest, but apparently in 2013, this was a change that was introduced:

"installers who are not a registered competent person may now use a 'registered third-party certifier' to certify work as an alternative to a using building control body." - the registered third-parties are those bodies like NICEIC.

Anyone here can state they are an engineer, that word has no legal protection, but there is legal protection for the words 'Chartered Engineer' and 'Incorporated Engineer; and the letters CEng, IEng and others, because they are titles that under legislation

can only be granted by certain institutions (like Institution of Engineering and Technology, IET - new name for IEE). But, to be effective, the public needs to know the difference in meaning (which I doubt many are aware of). Employers are often aware of it.

It sounds like your professional engineer title would be similar to Chartered Engineer title, if it involves showing education, experience, ethics and so on.