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Ask an Expert Forum Using the experience of the E14 Community to troubleshoot a power supply
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Using the experience of the E14 Community to troubleshoot a power supply

colporteur
colporteur over 4 years ago

image

 

The attached schematic if for a wireless doorbell model WL-100A-A. It doesn't have any markings to indicate the manufacture.

 

It has been installed for a number of years and was supposedly working? I recently noticed people have been knocking more than ringing the door bell. I discovered pushing the remote button at the door does nothing. A quick battery change and still nothing. I removed the cover of the unit plugged directly into the wall and discovered that sweat smell of burnt Bakelite.

 

My initial question was "where is the AC step down transformer?" An internet search of transformerless power supply (PS) reveal a number of hits. One immediately caught my attention because of the warnings about mains voltage. This is my first experience with a PS that doesn't use a transformer. After doing some reading it seems to be a common design. I thought it wouldn't pass muster from a safety perspective. The warning of AC mains being potentially exposed on the lower voltage side of the circuit made me stop and take notice.

 

After some napkin drawing and initial troubleshooting I thought maybe someone in the E14 Community has experience and can offer advice.

 

There is no DC voltage. With 120VAC mains applied there is a reading through fuse F1 and nothing any point further. From observation the printed circuit board areas around A, B, C & D are darkened. A resistance measurement of R1 indicates at open. The surface of the component is scorched such that I am assuming its value is the same as R2. R3 & R4 read slightly less than their colour code, no shorts or opens. Diodes D5-D8 appear to test OK. The schematic component type is not correct. I was unable to read the markings and the diode was a fritzing listing. No shorts or opens are measured on the diodes. The same goes for the zener diodes.

 

I don't measure a short across the 12VDC rails. My first thought was to connect a supply at that point to see if the device still works. I'm not sure what took out the front end but based on what they say about currents for this type of PS design it being caused by the load. Then I recalled reading about having no load on this type of supply. Not being familiar with the design and all the warnings I figured I would post to this life line for some advice.

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Top Replies

  • colporteur
    colporteur over 4 years ago +7
    I appreciate everyone's responses so I took the time to respond to Fred27 before posting this update. The door bell circuit worked after connecting an external PS. I did short intervals of power on and…
  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 4 years ago +4
    That is a classic capacitive dropper power supply which is non-isolated (so be careful while probing). As long as the casing offers double-insulation and humans aren't touching anything metal, it seems…
  • dougw
    dougw over 4 years ago +4
    You should be able to inject a DC voltage through a current limiting resistor to any point in the circuit to test which components still work. 24V dc through a 10K resistor should work.
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  • colporteur
    colporteur over 4 years ago

    Thanks for the response folks. Couple that knowledge with what I read from this hackaday post https://hackaday.com/2017/04/04/the-shocking-truth-about-transformerless-power-supplies/ I'm going to be more cautious in my next approach.

     

    The way the AC plug is inserted in the wall determining what is neutral side caused me consternation. I was using an extension cord that had the potential to create the neutral reverse scenario. I was using a VOM for measurements. I'm glad I wasn't using an oscilloscope or I may have had sparks. Well I guess I wouldn't with the current state of the circuit. It just wasn't something I was thinking of.

     

    I wasn't aware of the no-load condition. If my understanding is correct what ever current level the circuit is designed for, that power has to be dissipated. If the load is not doing the dissipation then the remaining components will. The power has to go somewhere.

     

    A resistance measurement at the filter capacitor on the 12V output doesn't show a short. I'm going to assume it's reasonably save to connect an alternate power source at that point. I don't have a power supply that I can control but I do have I have a 12VDC supply that has some overcurrent protection. I've seen the output voltage of the supply drop when I inadvertently applied a short. I will make sure the AC is unplugged during the testimageand let you know how it goes.

     

    Thanks again for chiming in.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 4 years ago in reply to colporteur

    For home ac outlets, always consider both pins hot.

    Neither is safe to touch, even if it's the genuine neutral.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 4 years ago in reply to colporteur

    For home ac outlets, always consider both pins hot.

    Neither is safe to touch, even if it's the genuine neutral.

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  • kmikemoo
    kmikemoo over 4 years ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    Jan Cumps  Absolutely awesome advice.  While neutral may be clamped to a zero volts reference point, it is still a current carrying conductor - and current will take every possible path to earth (ground).  The question isn't if current will flow, only how much.

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