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Ask an Expert Forum Extra eyes on ESP32 Reflections ThingTwo main board?
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Extra eyes on ESP32 Reflections ThingTwo main board?

frankcohen
frankcohen over 3 years ago

Hi 14-ers, I'm seeking your help to review the third revision to the Reflections open-source hardware main board, codenamed ThingTwo. It's an ESP32-S3 in a 34 mm round double-sided board. This is my first-time to produce a hardware/software project. I'm excited and nervous. I would be glad for your eyes on the design: Identify mistakes, limitations, and poor design choices. And, make changes to improve it.

Schematic, layout, and BOM are at:

oshwlab.com/.../Reflections-Mainboard

The main repository is at github.com/.../ReflectionsOS.

I produced this to make mobile storytelling experiences. I am distributing the design under a free open-source GPL v3 software license.

Thanks for considering my ask.

-Frank

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  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 3 years ago +2
    From a quick look at your github link it appears you have working hardware in your most recent iteration so congratulations. What issues did you encounter and are there any still troubling you?
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 3 years ago +2
    Hi, The silkscreen makes it hard to see what's going on. Some text is sub-millimeter (and may not be readable on the physical board) and some text is many millimeters high, and overlapping with other…
  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 3 years ago +2
    I found the schematic difficult to follow as well. For example, below is the GPS which is labelled "50 OHMS IMPEDANCE" instead of GPS. I had to look up the part number to see what it was. I was interested…
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  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 3 years ago

    I found the schematic difficult to follow as well.  For example, below is the GPS which is labelled "50 OHMS IMPEDANCE" instead of GPS.  I had to look up the part number to see what it was.  I was interested in seeing what the GPS schematic looked like because the previous version was said not to work.

    GPS

    The pin marked "ON/OFF" is not connected.  I'm not familiar with this part and don't know if that is acceptable or not but it should show a connection or be marked with an X flag to indicate it has no connection.  There are several other pins like this on the schematic and the design rule checker should be issuing warnings.  Ideally the GPS would be tested / prototyped before adding to the larger project which would reduce wiring and code errors.

    Have you had a good look at the power budget?  There won't be much room for a battery and some of the components are likely to be power hungry.  

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  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 3 years ago

    I found the schematic difficult to follow as well.  For example, below is the GPS which is labelled "50 OHMS IMPEDANCE" instead of GPS.  I had to look up the part number to see what it was.  I was interested in seeing what the GPS schematic looked like because the previous version was said not to work.

    GPS

    The pin marked "ON/OFF" is not connected.  I'm not familiar with this part and don't know if that is acceptable or not but it should show a connection or be marked with an X flag to indicate it has no connection.  There are several other pins like this on the schematic and the design rule checker should be issuing warnings.  Ideally the GPS would be tested / prototyped before adding to the larger project which would reduce wiring and code errors.

    Have you had a good look at the power budget?  There won't be much room for a battery and some of the components are likely to be power hungry.  

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 3 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    I feel the same as Frank, it's hard to follow, with upside-down earth symbols, and in places there were wire labels hanging off corners.

    Something's not right if this is the third iteration and it couldn't be made to work on the previous two. The very first PCB should work, albeit a few bodge wires may be needed on the first PCB. If it cannot be made to work on that first PCB (with bodge wires/cut traces and so on), it's a DEFCON 1 level situation.

    You mention the GPS didn't work, and it has been replaced with a different module. As Frank too suggests, has that been tested in a prototype? (By prototype, it means just tack wires to it if necessary, and solder it to your board). It's best to go into a PCB design with close to 100% confidence that it will all work. Unless it's a really simple design, I don't think I've ever made a PCB design without at least some prototyping, on stripboard or whatever, or (if it's easy to do so - not the case with a GPS module) simulation. 

    If the engineer can make the schematic tidy, the process of doing that may reveal issues to them. Also, a design review (where they talk it through with you - it doesn't matter if you are experienced or not, it will help the engineer discover bugs merely through talking through their design (they could talk it through to a cat if necessary! although it's best discussed to a human, so that you can ask simple questions, and you don't need to understand the response, provided it sounds like a well-reasoned response).

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 3 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Also, there's still an inner-layer ground plane around the module, and that's been discussed multiple times, so the fact that it has not been picked up as an issue, means that there has been zero design review, because that review would have been the opportunity to ask why it's still present on the third release of the board.

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  • frankcohen
    frankcohen over 3 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    "For example, below is the GPS which is labelled "50 OHMS IMPEDANCE" instead of GPS. " I take your point, and well. I will work on cleaning up the silkscreen overall. And to your point about the impedance label it applies only to Pin 11 RF_IN. I'm changing the label and denoting GPS for the module.

    The Sox (rev 1) and Hoober (rev 2) GPS modules may have worked; However, the boards has so many fundamental problems - like Sox ESP32 not booting. I tested the ATGM336H-5N31 in a breadboard and it works great. It comes in a surface mount module, so much less testing and I chose it. 

    "Have you had a good look at the power budget?" Measuring current needs is coming up next week. I will report what I learn here.

    image

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  • frankcohen
    frankcohen over 3 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Hi Shabaz, "Something's not right if this is the third iteration and it couldn't be made to work on the previous two." I had planned to do 3 revisions of the board (Sox, then Hoober, then ThingTwo), with reworks (cut traces, soldered wire) on each. So far that has worked well, including Hoober mounting as a hard drive and later displaying videos on the display at 10 Frames Per Second. I'm feeling good about where we are at. -Frank

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  • frankcohen
    frankcohen over 3 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Thanks for the pointer on the ground plane, I'll make sure that gets attention. -Frank

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