What is you surge suppression experience

Hi! Have you considered optical? I did a point-to-point connection for a friend (he has two buildings) and decided to string optical instead of coax. It is quite low-cost nowadays. Of course, it may be impractical for some use-cases.

shabaz said:

Of course, it may be impractical for some use-cases.

I'm guessing that there isn't much power available at the top of a grain bin, so PoE is being used to power the wireless access point ?

I can't speak precisely on Ethernet, but we used to put surge suppression interfaces on some of our RS-485 MODBUS runs. When you're replacing the monitor station for the third time due to a near lightning event... it makes fiscal sense.  Basically, they were opto-isolators.

Do you know what is causing the cable failure?  If your grain bin is the highest point around, you may be fighting nature.  Nothing protects from a direct lightning strike.  "Lightning protection" is really just trying to transfer where it happens when it happens.

When I started providing break-fix IT support in 2018, there was 15M Internet provided. Two building connected to the high speed (it wasn't dialup), one over an serial connection on an abandon phone line and the other point-to-point.

Since that time the network has involved to a hub and spoke concept on fiber. Three spoke connections into the central hub point are copper. Two are to access points over CAT6 and one to a point-to-point link to and access point on a grain bin 300m away. If you picture a rectangle, two short sides have wife coverage and one long side.

The long side that doesn't have wifi coverage is now getting a 60G point to point link to feed another building being built.

Fiber was installed a 18 months ago. During an upgrade to underground power service I suggested pushing an extra conduit while laying the 600volt service. Three weeks after my suggestion I was hiring contractors to pull fiber.

I have looked at the fiber kits that include transceivers for both ends as an option. In a yard that is constantly in motion from farm vehicles, 125ft grain augers and transport trucks overhead is not an option. Digging a 300m trench to put a fiber cable to run an access point is pretty expensive.

Some, not all of the grain bins have 600v blower motors to move air in the bins. The grain bin that got the latest antenna had electricians wire up a 120v service to power the PoE point-to-point. The PTP happened to support a PoE output that powered the access point.

I've yet to experience an outage from a lighting strike or power surge. As the connection footprint begins to include more and more long CAT6 runs to access point and point to point equipment, I'm thinking my risk is going up.

These device are less than 100 bucks a piece. With three cables already in place that six boxes and one more to come that is eight. I also think if something goes wrong someone has to know A) they are there and B)how to troubleshoot them..

K, this is preventative or paranoid i haven't decided yet. The network site is requiring more and more outdoor equipment. An ad for these devices came across my desk and I got thinking about my landline days. Fuse and surge suppression was the standard for all landlines. I find myself dragging long runs of CAT6 with nary a  care in the world about interference.

Sounds like you have some experience. Anything on outdoor network CAT runs?

colporteur said:

this is preventative or paranoid i haven't decided yet.

adding to the paranoia: is it safe to have long copper wires (like ethernet) up a grain bin? They are prone to dust explosions. A lightning or surge event near a length of copper wires can generate a spark.

The CAT6 cable runs are outside the bin. On some other bins there are GPS antennas and cameras. I default to the yard supervisor for installation. He hasn't told me NO to this point.

I would have thought lighting rods would have been the norm on bins but not here. Over 90 bins some as high as 90 feet and not a lighting rod to be seen. The yard site is adjacent to a 1000ft telecommunication I figure that might be the lighting rod:) The guy wires from the tower cut through part of the yard.

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RE: What is you surge suppression experience

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Ah... so kind of telecom to provide you with some lightning protection.  I think you are at low risk of a direct strike but still at average risk of the elevated ground plane created by a near lightning strike - caused by the relative proximity to the telecon tower. and the inability of Mother Earth to dissipate that much energy instantaneously.
Now... if it hasn't presented itself as a problem up to this point, your efforts will be "taking a reasonable protective posture".  You can make a sound financial decision.  If the isolators are just a fraction of the cost of the equipment they protect... go for it.  If they are even 25% the cost and you have never experienced an equipment failure from a near lightning event... put your money into other things.

Sorry.  It was all single pair, twisted shielded.  And it was no where near the distances outside that you are dealing with.  We had some crazy long indoor runs, but that's not even close to what you're up against.  If the access points are relatively inexpensive and you haven't experienced any issues up to this point, I would recommend still rolling the dice.  And remember... a little bit of paranoia is good.  It increases your chances of survival.

Also sorry.  I think this stuff is cool and I don't get to talk about it much anymore.

If you have lost equipment or the access points are kind of expensive... keep considering the isolators.  When we needed to power a remote device, sometimes we used 18/2 thermostat wire.  It's cheap.  2-pair Belden was a possibility, but that stuff is expensive.  The power draw on the isolators was so small that the line loss was negligible, even for long runs. Per the NEC, thermostat wire can be run in the same conduit as the communication circuits.  And, since it's DC, there's no worry of cross-talk.  I will say that the low voltage and communications circuits did always get their own conduit run - even if it was non-metallic.  Don't put it in the same conduit as the power circuit.

As long as you don't run your CAT6 across the ground wire on a power pole, you should be in good shape.  Your "risk" is EMP.  If the bin has a ground strap that attaches it to a ground grid... don't run your CAT6 there.  The thing that used to kill all of our telephone modems was pole ground EMP.

The video is taken from the new legg completed about May. Just to the left on the start of the video is the communications tower. I estimate 100m away.

At the end of the video there is a 125 ft grain auger. The end of the auger points to four bins in a row. then a large silver bin. That is the north part of the yard. The bin farthermost from the silver bin has a point to point link back to where I am standing. That PTP is has a AP.

Sorry for the noise. I never realize it. I am standing next to the belt motors that move grain both up/down and across to different bins.

Biggest concern about putting them in is knowledge transfer. I would know they are there and what to look for. Since they are not common in networks would others?